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| Question about WW2 radio codes |
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Posted by: DONJCH - 22-04-2018, 03:39 AM - Forum: Analysis of the text
- Replies (17)
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Greetings all, my name is Don and I am new here.
I am a retired medical scientist with a background in chemistry and interest in things statistical, though not in the context of language.
There is little I can bring to the table other than an analytical mind.
Anyway I have spent a few weeks reading through most of the threads on this site and perhaps can bring a fresh perspective.
I was impressed with the Torsten auotocopy suggestion which has the potential to account for many of the observed features of the VMS including the low entropy by a plausible method available in the 15th C.
To the point though, as somebody else observed, this does not exclude the possibility of actual real content buried in the manuscript. As an analogy I am thinking of the WW2 radio practice of sending coded message phrases buried among a whole bunch of similar nonsense phrases.
As an aside, there was a famous instance in the battle of Leyte Gulf where the message sent was "Where is 5th Fleet?"
and instead the message received by the admiral was "Where is 5th Fleet? The world wonders!"
The accidentally added nonsense phrase amounted to gross insubordination in the context!
I do not know the technical term for this procedure but it strikes me that something similar could easily be going on in the VMS.
It seems also that there are many instances where sections seem to have been inserted in the text as a second pass.
We could ring the changes on the corrollaries of this, such as what upper limit on real content is placed by the entropy stats? Is the message spread throughout the text in small pieces or in less frequent larger chunks? If so such chunks may still be amenable to a statistical approach and in any case Torsten's software could be used to model some scenarios.
Apologies if all this has been suggested before, I am sure it has but maybe not recently in the context given.
I am only an egg compared to most of you.
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| f57v Summation of sequences |
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Posted by: R. Sale - 10-04-2018, 10:51 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk
- Replies (2)
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VMs f 57v Summation of sequences
As discussed previously, in the 4 x 17 symbol sequence, the symbol in position five (EVA = ‘v’) has several different potential interpretations. The actual glyph is written as an inverted “V” and therefore is more similar to the Greek letter ‘lambda’ in upper case or to the medieval form of the numeral seven as seen in various places such as Typus Arithmetica. A third interpretation is that it is an inverted representation of the Roman numeral ‘V’ or five, given that it sits in the fifth position. In other words, this is an interpretation that is confirmed (to some extent) by placement or location, not wholly by appearance.
Positional confirmation can also be demonstrated for the first two examples. In the Greek interpretation of lambda in position five, there is also omicron in positions one, which is correctly spaced at the same distance as in the Greek alphabet. Likewise in the system of medieval numerals, the interpretation as the number ‘7’ is the proper distance from the second symbol which is a clear representation of a medieval numeral ‘four.’ Once again visual interpretation / appearance confirmed by positional relationships when compared with known traditions.
These are three well-know sequences of symbols, and it is possible to overlay each of those systems unambiguously onto the VMs sequence with the information presented above. The Roman and medieval sequences are numerical. The Greek alphabet is actually alpha-numeric. (And it has a few quirks to accommodate. The one most relevant here is the insertion of a non-alphabetical symbol, digamma, in the sixth position.)
So, in the Greek numerical sequence, lambda equals thirty. While in the Roman sequence the value of this symbol is five. And the medieval value is seven. And if we go back to omicron, at the beginning, the Greek value is seventy, the Roman value is one and the medieval value is three.
Values in each sequence: (Roman value = symbol position)
Greek 70 60 50 40 30 20 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 < >
Roman 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17
Medieval 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
Sum: 74 66 58 50 42 34 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36
Now if we subject each sum to numerological reduction:
7 + 4 = 11; 1 + 1 =2
6 + 6 = 12; 1 + 2 = 3
5 + 8 = 13; 1 + 3 = 4
5 + 0 = 5
4 + 2 = 6
3 + 4 = 7
2 + 6 = 8
2 + 7 = 9
2 + 8 = 10; 1 + 0 = 1
2+ 9 = 11; 1 + 1 = 2
3 + 0 = 3
3 + 1 = 4
ETC.
And this continues till we get to the Greek alpha equals one, which (if we include the digamma in position six) gives us a symbol sequence consisting of sixteen symbols where the VMs sequence has seventeen symbols.
When we look at the values for the seventeen symbol, the Roman value is 17, the medieval value is nineteen. The total of these two is thirty-six, and 3 + 6 = 9. Nine is the proper sequential value, so the Greek value can not make any numerical contribution - if the pattern holds true.
The final numerological sequence is simple: 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 1, 2 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9,
What could this be? Does it have a meaning or some use?
If we consider the choice sequences and their arrangement in relation to each other - doesn't this have to be an intentional construction?
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| [split] Color annotations? |
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Posted by: Anton - 05-04-2018, 09:57 AM - Forum: Voynich Talk
- Replies (89)
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Edit KG: I split this thread from one about f29r, but there was no elegant way to do this, hence the somewhat abrupt beginning.
I think this folio has been discussed, must have been lost in the "Coventry incident". I don't remember the details though.
Nice observation of "r", don't remember it from before.
Don't think it stands for "radix", it's pointless to mark a root as a root when everyone plainly sees that it's a root.
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| [split] recurring word sequences |
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Posted by: doranchak - 31-03-2018, 08:04 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text
- Replies (7)
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I am very curious about the general case of sequences of n "vords".
For example, instead of considering only patterns of the type XYXY, consider any sequence ABCD. In other words, consider every combination of 4 vords.
For each combination, compute the expected number of occurrences based on your probability calculations. Then compare to the actual count, and sort the list of combinations in descending order of the difference between actual and expected. Which combinations are unusually repetitive (or unusually non-repetitive, i.e. phobic of specific combinations) and are thus statistically significant compared to random distributions of vords?
I suspect this test might have already been performed - perhaps someone can point me to existing research on this.
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| word starting [q] must have a valid counterpart word starting [o] |
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Posted by: davidjackson - 31-03-2018, 07:51 PM - Forum: Positions we can agree upon
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This post in entirely based upon the research of Emma Smith. However I feel that she has identified an important grammatical structure and so post her theory here for community members to discuss. I will leave this thread open for a couple of days before posting the poll so that anyone can run independent statistical analysis to prove or destroy the theory.
Emma suggests :
Quote:words beginning with [q] have two particular relationships. The first is that a word starting [q] must have a valid counterpart word starting [o], and it is not enough for the plain word without either [q] or [o] to exist. Conversely, even if the [o] form exists, that does not mean that the [q] form will.
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| Language of Voynich manuscript. |
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Posted by: luiscrassus - 31-03-2018, 02:31 PM - Forum: News
- Replies (17)
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The voynich manuscript is written by an artificial language. Created from roots of phonetic words of latin (70%), french (10%), english (10%) and rest of the words are italian, spanish, portuges, serb, turkish, and hungarian. In fact, we deal with languages of Southern Europe. I really suppose, that the author collected these words in various dock across Italy and his purpose was to create an "international language", something similar to Esperanto.
It is keywods:
aez-wetting/drench, ado-pray, ames-soul, amsla-church/temple, amslo-Mass, amsel-reverend, amors-dead body, amoero-shadovs, amurd-murde, amora-philanderer, amoro-pay, amulo-catfish, amula-mud (green water on drawings), amuro-wall, amer-mercantile, amones-our Lord/God, aldos-blessing/benediction, ales-devil, aquim-water, ano-deranged, apelo-appeal, ares-revenant, ara-altar, aslo-speak, avio-fly, auro-breeze, besf-most beautiful, cielo-heaven, civino-citizen, civo-serf, difi-difficulty, dock-dock, doz-dozen, doga-principle, dox-bath, bathroom, dio-God, datus-allegedly, dimero-pouring, dono-donor, dor-cask/barrel, doro-holy, does-does, eles-lift up, eel-eels, ildo-rebel/illegal, malo-demon, my-my, mones-monk, nox-night, nes-death, (h)eroa-hero (letter H is not written at the beginning of the word), (h)omos-human, (h)umo-people, ores-underworld, oro-sea coast, oquino-(water)well, oqui-(water)spring, oquis-horses, oquim-gale, qeima-woman, quifes-quarter, quira-girl, quit-quit, reses-free/freely, res-rest, vir-man/hero, vira-virago/amazon, viez-young, vif-vife, vim-strong/powerful, vick-wicked, vivi-live, vio-street, vilox-city/village, vidi-cheater/swindler, visa-gravedigger, vod-wood, vodo-wood/forest, vold-world, vos-seduce nymph.
Luis Crassus
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