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| What Will It Take to Solve the Voynich Manuscript? |
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Posted by: Torsten - 25-06-2020, 08:45 PM - Forum: News
- Replies (26)
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There is a new paper from 2020 about the VMS: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
The paper from Lisa Fagin Davis is available You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
Lisa Davis argues: "The Voynich manuscript is written using an otherwise unknown collection of symbols known as 'Voynichese,' with linguistically identifiable roots, prefixes, and suffixes, as well as repeating orthographic and grammatical patterns (see Figure 1)" (Davis 2020, p. 73). It seems as if Figure 1 is referring to a figure on the following page p. 74. This figure shows the upper part of folio f84r. Based on the idea that the Voynich text represents natural language Lisa Davis comes to the conclusion: "An acceptable proposal must result in a reading that makes sense semantically, chronologically, and logically." (Davis 2020, p. 81).
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| The sequence of images |
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Posted by: R. Sale - 24-06-2020, 08:28 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk
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From davidjackson: [font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]You have to look at the sequence of images, not each one individually! [/font]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]And more than just images, it is sequence itself that needs to be investigated.[/font]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Several folios are being discussed:[/font]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]VMs You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as Melusine would imply a connection with Valois ancestry.[/font]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]VMs You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as a combination of the Golden Fleece and the 1313 Agnus Dei (Golden Agnus) -more focused on Burgundy[/font]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]VMs You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as the empty rainbow throne for la sainte Hostie de Dijon. (an obscure historical event and a perfect chronological fit)[/font]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]If this is a series, what about VMs f80v? The page does't look that exciting. There is a large pool, with women wading in two rows, Eight in each row. Sixteen nymphs in a sea green pool. Is there anything particular about that? (Secondary interpretations or a deeper meaning?) Does You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. have something to continue the sequence Or does this break it?[/font]
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| Burma Shave |
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Posted by: R. Sale - 22-06-2020, 07:47 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk
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In a recent series of postings, someone made a comment using the term "Burma Shave". Since then I have wondered how many of the ninja group might actually have an accurate cultural interpretation for this old, rural American tradition.
So, a question to everyone: Did you know about it *before* you looked it up? Sure there are those signs and poems and so on. But that's not it. The thing is that along country roads and highways, these signs were nailed to fence posts, sometimes a quarter mile apart. What matters in the interpretation of tradition is understanding the situation on the ground.
The tradition of Melusine in the Valois dukes of France is confirmed in the evidence of the Duke of Berry and continued two generations after in his brother's line in Burgundy. This is the situation on the ground. Research has recovered the images in the de Metz text from Paris (Harley 334). Who is it that was pictured on f57? According to the tradition on the ground, this is Melusine. There is no alternative, unless 'anonymous' is satisfactory.
So now, if we come to the VMs with an adequate background in established tradition during the historical period provided by the C-14 parchment dates, then who is Ms. Ladyfish on VMs f79v? It is Melusine! And the exact details of the representation are not relevant. The time and the difficulty involved in this recognition are an indication of the magnitude of the cultural gap in the interpretation of tradition.
These signs are clear:
Harley 334 is dated to the second quarter of the 1400s, (1425-1449), or, alternatively, 1430-1440.
The Golden Fleece is 1430 and after in Burgundy.
La sainte Hostie de Dijon starts in the early 1430s, probably 1433.
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And the last sign says; "Burma Shave".
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| Sitting on a rainbow? |
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Posted by: R. Sale - 19-06-2020, 11:34 PM - Forum: Imagery
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Who's that sitting on the medieval rainbow? There are Christian representations and there are classical deities also.
Who's that not sitting on a rainbow in VMs f82v? The VMs double rainbow is vacant. Who is it not sitting there? Not Dr. Who. It could be any of the relevant possibilities either Christian or classical. It could be any one of those possibilities from a modern perspective.
Tradition indicates the opposite. If previous historical implications are any guide, this is an interesting possibility that connects to Philip the Good, and dates to 1433. Dijon is the Burgundian capital at that time.
The Sacred Bleeding Host of Dijon:
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Sitting on a rainbow - or not. This seems to be part of a pattern put forth is some other parts of the VMs. First - the oak and ivy - whatever is discordant can be combined. Second - whatever is synonymous, whatever belongs together can be separated. In this case the double rainbow throne and its essential occupant have been separated.
While identifying an absent figure really is hypothetical, there is the clear potential for historical confluence regarding the traditions of Melusine, the Golden Fleece as the 1313 Agnus Dei, and Sainte Hostie as the missing occupant of the rainbow throne.
And the close arrangement of these folios in the VMs. How is that a coincidence?
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| Can music uncover the text? |
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Posted by: bunny - 12-06-2020, 10:57 AM - Forum: Analysis of the text
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“Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything.” ― Plato
Given its universal feature of harmony and maths can music be used to uncover the complexity of the text (not translation)?
As Plato said music, also known as sound, vibratin, frequency, pattern, is built into the building blocks of the universe. I am assigning various notes to the VM glyphs and basically seeing what happens based on variable assumptions of the glyphs. Many glyphs are unclear in their purpose, e.g, is ch the same as c+h or a seperate value, ee or e+e, iiin or i+in or i+i+i+n, how does cfh work etc?
By looking for instances of disharmony (and there certainly are some) I hope to find some answers. B->A# and G->G#->G are not comfortable combinations for sure! So far ch, q and k are posing the most problems. Project ongoing.
Bunny
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| PSA to newbies: There's nothing wrong with being wrong |
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Posted by: RenegadeHealer - 10-06-2020, 04:43 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk
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Since schools have shut down over the coronavirus, my wife and I have been homeschooling our 8 year old triplets. Yesterday I tried to impart an important life lesson to them: You're going to be wrong many, many times, about all sorts of things. Expect it. Any person's perspective on any situation is limited and biased. Other people will be clear about things you're fuzzy on, and vice versa. When someone else involved in that same situation offers you clarity, that's a gift, not an attack, and there is much to be gained from receiving it accordingly.
I had it drummed into me in graduate school and professional training that I should always be honest and realistic about the limits of my knowledge. I try to only state things authoritatively that I'm quite certain about. If I'm speculating and guessing, I try to phrase it in a way that makes it clear I'm not sure, and would welcome the input of anyone more knowledgeable than me. If I flat out don't know, I say "I don't know", and if it's my responsibility to know it, I'm quick to add, "Let me look that up and get back to you."
If someone has a problem with my lack of knowledge or certainty, that's their problem, not mine. I had one teacher who said sternly to me, "I think students shouldn't open their mouths unless they have the right answer." I strongly disagree. I didn't give him sauce, but nor did I sign up for any more tutelage from him, or give him good ratings. As far as I'm concerned, there's a special place in hell for any teacher who's willing to beat the curiosity, creativity, or genuine love of learning out of a student.
I got into the VMS because when I first saw it, it made my imagination run wild with possibilities. I'm sure this is the case for many, if not most, people who get into this mystery. It can be disillusioning to share these flights of fancy, and be told by people more knowledgeable than me that I'm probably not on the right track. But I'd rather know this now, than invest loads of work barking up the wrong tree. If somebody already thought of my idea, and ruled it unlikely based on what they know that I don't, that's something to be grateful for! I've tried to hold onto this early sense of wonder, of "anything is possible", that I first felt when seeing the VMS, while at the same time appreciating and integrating the slow-moving, painstaking, un-glamourous bottom-up approach that's likely to eventually solve it. It's not so much a matter of mixing romantic and rationalist thinking styles, but of knowing when to switch between them, and never mistaking one for the other.
During my time exploring this mystery, I've seen a lot of people show up with grandiose and well fleshed out ideas of what the VMS is, get their ideas criticized by people with different perspectives, and walk away with hurt feelings. Newbies reading this, don't be that guy. Only build and share what you're willing to see get knocked down. Or be honest and upfront that what you've built is a work of fiction. To anyone who's serious about solving the mystery, I highly recommend you share your idea early on, and be upfront about how rough your idea is. Don't flesh it out so much that you can't bear to see your brainchild dashed to pieces.
In the end, you have to ask yourself why you're attracted to the VMS, and what you hope to accomplish in exploring it. And understand that others have very different reasons, and bring very different backgrounds to the table. Go ahead, be wrong. There's no successful person who hasn't failed many, many times.
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![[Image: image.jpg?q=f24r-201-441-132-54]](https://voynich.ninja/extractor/image.jpg?q=f24r-201-441-132-54)