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Why and how the text coul...
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Voynich's anatomy
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I am not convinced by the...
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EVA "qo" in 15th century ...
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[Article] What We Actuall...
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Palatino 766 pipes, pools...
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No text, but a visual cod...
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Voynich Reconsidered
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[split] Aga Tentakulus' L...
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| Experiment: how would you transliterate the following glyphs? |
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Posted by: Koen G - 08-10-2023, 08:24 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text
- Replies (29)
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Below is an image of 16 numbered glyphs, all taken from the main text of the VM. All I did was isolate the glyphs from two folios which were by the same scribe, same section (I would have used one folio, but two gave me just a bit more to work with). My question is simple: how would you transliterate these glyphs? Do you draw a line somewhere? One, two, three... different ones? How do you decide between one glyph and the other? Not that I put them in a rough order evolving from one extreme to the other, but that doesn't mean they are necessarily neatly grouped per type.
Rules:
* No need to use EVA, you can invent your own system if you wish.
* Most importantly, the aim is not to capture every possible different stroke, but rather to represent each glyph you think is intended to be the same one by the same letter. For example, if you think glyphs 1, 2 and 3 are meant as the same letter and the rest is meant as a different letter, you can write: "A, A, A, B, B, B, B..."
* DO NOT look at any websites or existing transliterations. Just use your own intuition. It doesn't matter whether you're familiar with any existing systems or not.
* There is most definitely no right answer. I don't know the answer, and I'm pretty sure nobody does. I just want to find out how different people would tackle this problem.
* PM me your answer. Even if you use spoiler tags here, people will peek. Please participate, because the more answers I get, the more informative this will be.
I will just leave this clip from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. here to cause some confusion, no need to transcribe that.
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| Small Plant Text Labels |
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Posted by: Mark Knowles - 07-10-2023, 05:45 PM - Forum: Imagery
- Replies (9)
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I am interested in the labels next to the small plants which I intend to use in conjunction with the matching information for textual comparison. So, for example, to compare the text against a root with the matching text against a leaf. I think there is also some scope for comparing herbal paragragh text with the labels of matching small plants. In addition comparison with small plant paragraph text may be of interest.
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| Ordering large-plant bifolios in accordance with pharma section? |
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Posted by: Koen G - 02-10-2023, 08:21 PM - Forum: Imagery
- Replies (4)
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I'm making a separate thread specifically fot this question, since in Mark's thread a lot is being handled at once. This is the question I personally find the most fascinating right now, though others are of course welcome to explore different facets (e.g. label matching) in the other thread or a separate one.
A first thing I have noticed (probably been noticed before) is that the following bifolios could be nested, from outside to inside:
1-8
37-36
18-23
47-42
This would result in a lot of the strongest, most obvious resemblances from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. to be somewhat grouped together: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. - You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (I think this may have been a new discovery by Mark) - f37v - You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. follows without clear match - You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. - You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. without clear match - You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. - You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. without clear match - You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. - then the rest follows without clear match: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. , You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. , You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. , You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. , You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
All of these bifolios are Herbal A, scribe 1. This suggests that the later ones are indeed out of place. The suggested nesting would bring a large amount of recurring roots together with just a few other plants in between.
It is possible that more bifolios should be nested. In Q20 it went up to 7, apparently. I'm still puzzling further, juggling these bifolios requires quite a bit of concentration. I am not sure if this will lead to anything else, or if it's all a coincidence, but the fact that they can be grouped and this action pulls back some wayward Herbal A folios is a bit encouraging.
Link to our Drive doc for easy access: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
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| Italian cloudbands |
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Posted by: R. Sale - 02-10-2023, 07:52 PM - Forum: Imagery
- Replies (7)
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Investigations of historical use of the illustrated cloudband (Wolkenband) as an artistic element have opened new aspects in VMs research, and the VMs examples in particular either use or are based on the pattern of a nebuly line.
Italy is a location favored by various investigators as a probable place of origin for the VMs.
What is the evidence for cloudbands in Italian art? Here is a small sample of illustrated sources and there is *nothing* line a nebuly line among them. Meanwhile there is evidence of another interesting 'cosmic boundary' phenomenon, which would be the "golden rays" version. Also showing the 'plain line' version of a cosmic boundary, where the comparable Harley 334 is also a later example.
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Are there Italian examples of cosmic boundaries that use a nebuly line pattern before 1450?
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| Voynich Mandalas Coloring Book |
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Posted by: merrimacga - 01-10-2023, 07:48 AM - Forum: Fiction, Comics, Films & Videos, Games & other Media
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Voynich Mandalas Coloring Book
by J-EDi Book
ASIN: B0CCCR37KP
Publisher: Independently published (July 12, 2023)
Language: English
Paperback: 64 pages
ISBN-13: 979-8852046161
Item Weight: 7.8 ounces
Dimensions: 8.5 x 0.15 x 11 inches
Age range not noted but publisher creates coloring books for kids, teenagers and adults.
Publisher page: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Amazon page: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Per the publisher page:
"Discover this unique coloring book from the new extraordinary fantasy mandala series, Voynich Mandalas an Enigmatic Floral Mandalas. Each drawing in the book was created by hand by tracing the unknown plants represented in the ancient Voynich Manuscript, and re-proposed in an equally mysterious mandala, thus offering a unique coloring experience. Let yourself be transported into a world of apparently floral elements, inspired by the mysterious world of Voynich, where your creativity wrapped in mystery comes to life."
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| Relationship between word frequency and word length |
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Posted by: Addsamuels - 01-10-2023, 02:01 AM - Forum: Analysis of the text
- Replies (3)
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I think that in European languages, the most common words are short, whereas the rarer are longer on average. This is to say, that the word length is inversely proportional to the word frequency on average.
Here are some examples:
English:
Code: you 28787591
i 27086011
the 22761659
to 17099834
a 14484562
's 14291013
it 13631703
and 10572938
that 10203742
't 9628970
of 8915110
is 7400675
in 7337058
what 6900164
we 6755687
me 6444985
this 5739788
he 5516364
for 5174060
my 4938948
on 4821861
have 4764010
your 4610945
do 4419883
was 4401531
Code: de 8435682
je 8308698
est 6942248
pas 5833676
le 5305591
que 5083052
la 4825603
vous 4500162
tu 4434920
un 4360896
c' 4184576
à 4119959
et 4110855
il 4025241
a 3679682
l' 3675406
ne 3343288
les 3046663
j' 2981242
en 2925411
on 2756346
ça 2742676
une 2717481
d' 2603041
ce 2533544
Code: ich 5890279
sie 3806767
das 3122198
ist 3025610
du 2947020
nicht 2756783
die 2484854
es 2303025
und 2289891
der 1726001
wir 1721620
was 1696010
zu 1424706
er 1352161
ein 1315301
in 1231372
ja 1054114
mir 1019451
mit 1014541
wie 928920
den 920646
mich 893076
auf 881418
dass 879520
aber 854492
Code: e 7389373
non 6257811
che 6063914
di 5880995
la 3887197
il 3726599
un 3555300
a 3451723
per 2866558
è 2559257
in 2156931
una 2153925
mi 2013071
sono 2005178
ho 1823350
l' 1819882
si 1772472
ha 1662783
ma 1650248
lo 1507340
cosa 1462858
con 1440540
no 1433410
le 1425870
ti 1405833
However in the Voynich the most common words is Daiin, and it seems that people say that it plays more of a verb role (this maybe because it looks like an infinitive in a Western European Language.
Obviously the handwriting is unclear in the manuscript and thus we don't know all of the gaps, but the legnth of the word may be an important step for the decipherment.
Regards, Alex
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Invitation to take part in Task Force on Voynich Plants Historical Research |
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Posted by: asteckley - 30-09-2023, 07:20 PM - Forum: News
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I've received a lot of great feedback on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. application.
So I would like to propose a short-term project: A Voynich Plants Historical Research Task Force ... if there are sufficient volunteers willing to take part.
The Motivation
While TVG is ostensibly an application to generate input from a broad audience, I've been told that it is also providing a very useful platform in active research by presenting all of the plant illustrations from the manuscript in one easy-to-browse location and by providing a summary of the many plant identification proposals from published research.
It is NOT meant, and cannot reasonably become, a one-stop comprehensive source of collaborative research and analysis of the botanical content of the manuscript, let alone for the cross-disciplinary features beyond the plant illustrations. However, it can go a bit further than it currently is in being a useful resource for active researchers.
- The current entries from 'historical researchers' cover most of those proposals that have been published previously, but it is not complete. There are a couple of notable sources that are not yet included, and most of the current ones are very brief in detail, lack pictures, and have indirect references. And we suspect, they probably include a few erroneous entries.
- There are a couple of additional features (described later) that could be added to the application which would make it even more useful for researchers.
The effort for implementing the additional features is not tremendous, but it is the extending and refining of the data regarding the historical research proposals that would justify adding them.
What's Proposed
If there are a few volunteers from this forum (or who are otherwise qualified) who are willing to collaborate on the effort of that data collection, then I can commit resources to provide support as follows:
1. We will first extend the application with these features (perhaps others after discussion): - The ability to designate with each proposal, the part of the plant that is being recognized for similarity. This would include Whole Plant, Flower, Leaves, Root, etc.
- The ability to journal commentary, pictures, and reference links on each whole plant illustration (not just on each proposal).
- The ability to search the content of comments across all plants and proposals.
2. I will provide the means to enable the group to easily enter data into the application as any one of the historical researchers and to collaborate on this activity
3. I can also set up a means for the group to exchange private communications and collaborate during the course of the task force.
I don't think this would be an onerous effort if handled by a small group at their leisure, and it should not take too long to complete the overall effort. (A few hours by each individual would probably collectively produce the minimum needed to substantially complete the task.)
Additional Comments
- We would need at least 3 or 4 people to volunteer before commencing. This will help ensure the success of the mission and justify the effort it will require for us to first implement the additional features mentioned. I think we need at least 3 people in order to enable sufficient collaboration and 'cross-oversight' of the activity and to just reduce the overall burden.
- We would of course provide, in the application, credit to the Task Force and list its members.
- It would be beneficial if the group also composed an additional resources page to provide information and links to other resources on various related topics (e.g. the many good Voynich websites and blogs, resources on the field of botany and how to identify plants, etc.). We could then add this as its own static page in the application. (The current About page has a bit of this information, but it is getting a bit too big to do justice to the Additional Resources section.)
- If ambitious, the group could also extend The Voynich Garden data to include the many partial-plant illustrations as well. These number more than the whole-plant illustrations currently included in the application. (If that commitment were made, I could also provide the necessary tools to clip out and prepare the additional images.)
- The previous points notwithstanding, it is important to keep the scope of The Voynich Garden application well-defined. It is tempting to keep extending it with more and more information and features, but we need to guard against it spreading out beyond the botanical illustrations. This would be a prohibitive and unnecessary goal. We are all aware that researching and analyzing the Voynich Manuscript involves several specialized areas and skill sets, and the plant illustrations are just one contributory feature. And there are many excellent resources available on many topics surrounding the manuscript and its different aspects. Too much overlap with those other resources is not helpful. The Voynich Garden can be most valuable if it stays focused on providing a single location to collect and present information specific to the botanical illustrations and the analysis of what they may represent. Making use of that information in broader efforts to analyze and understand the manuscript needs to be left to researchers using a variety of resources beyond just The Voynich Garden.
If you are interested, please PM or email me (curator@cryptobotany.org).
As I mentioned, if (but only if) there is sufficient interest and volunteers, then we can launch this task force.
Thank you all,
Andrew
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