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| Experiments with interpretation of the labels. The label otol. |
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Posted by: Searcher - 26-06-2020, 09:43 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text
- Replies (32)
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Hi!
I want to share my experiments with you. I wrote earlier that the VMs “word” otol (otol) is interesting for me, as it is a label for a few different illustrations in different sections of the manuscript. In particular, it appears in the “cosmological” section, in the “anatomy”-section and in the “small plants”-section (f102v2). From time to time, I try to choose words in different languages for this word. There were many approaches, but I want to write about two of them, as I count them the most interesting. Perhaps, trying to find a correct meaning for the label, we will find a solution. I'm not sure, but I hope so.
The first experiment is based on Greek language approach. I promised to write about this recently. I must say that I don’t have unique interpretation for this, as this is just an experiment. I don’t know Greek, so I just play with substitutions. Conditions: if it is a separate lable, I take it for a separate word.
Fortunately, this word contains only three characters: o, t and l.
Substitution # 1:
o = o
t = p
l = s
We’ll get the Greek word opos. In Latin transliteration it may mean:
1)[font=Times New Roman] [/font]You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. – as, like (adv.)
2)[font=Times New Roman] [/font]You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. – such as, just as, etc. (adv.) (see the link)
3)[font=Times New Roman] [/font]You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. – juice, plant/vegetable juice; fig-juice (noun)
The most interesting interpretation is, of course, “juice”. I don’t say it is ideal, but it marks some parts of the “anatomical”-like pipes on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and f77v, besides almost every page (at least, the most of them) of the herbal section contains at least one otol. While I don’t imagine what it can mean, as an inscription to a star on f68r1.
Substitution # 2:
o = o
t = r
l = s
In Latin transliteration, it is oros, that can be:
1)[font=Times New Roman] [/font]You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. – limit, boundary, term, end, aim, etc. (noun)
2)[font=Times New Roman] [/font]You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. – a mountain, hill, section, etc. (noun)
3)[font=Times New Roman] [/font]You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. – serum, pus (noun). Old dictionaries also give such definitions, as whey, serum of blood.
As for me, this result is even more interesting, as these words may be used in all those sections of the VMs. Nevertheless, I made one more substitution.
Substitution # 3:
o = o
t = l
l = s
Latin transliteration: olos, in Greek may be:
1)[font=Times New Roman] [/font]You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. – whole, entire, absolute, generally, actually, etc. (noun)
2)[font=Times New Roman] [/font]You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. – whole, entire, all (not Ancient Greek noun)
3)[font=Times New Roman] [/font]ὅλος – muddy liquid (noun) (it is noted in some dictionaries)
Unfortunately, I can’t find a solution working with the main text. First of all, I don’t know Greek and Ancient Greek, and I couldn’t find a proper Greek word for the most part of the VMs words that contain [-otol-] in itself.
The second experiment was absolutely accidental. It led me to Hungarian language, also interesting one, to the point. I used only one way of substitution:
o = e
t = r
l = k
With this, we’ll get “erek”. In Hungarian it means “veins” or “streamlets” (nom.plur.). Undoubtedly, this result got me interested. And I was greatly surprised how many words with the same repeated vowel (from two to four times) can be found in this language. Thus, otol, okol, orol, ofol, opol, ochol, odol could be erek (veins), elek (edges; I live), evek (years), egek (heavens), etc. Nevertheless, I can’t say that this substitution really works in the main text, at least, for me.
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| What Will It Take to Solve the Voynich Manuscript? |
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Posted by: Torsten - 25-06-2020, 08:45 PM - Forum: News
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There is a new paper from 2020 about the VMS: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
The paper from Lisa Fagin Davis is available You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
Lisa Davis argues: "The Voynich manuscript is written using an otherwise unknown collection of symbols known as 'Voynichese,' with linguistically identifiable roots, prefixes, and suffixes, as well as repeating orthographic and grammatical patterns (see Figure 1)" (Davis 2020, p. 73). It seems as if Figure 1 is referring to a figure on the following page p. 74. This figure shows the upper part of folio f84r. Based on the idea that the Voynich text represents natural language Lisa Davis comes to the conclusion: "An acceptable proposal must result in a reading that makes sense semantically, chronologically, and logically." (Davis 2020, p. 81).
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| The sequence of images |
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Posted by: R. Sale - 24-06-2020, 08:28 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk
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From davidjackson: [font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]You have to look at the sequence of images, not each one individually! [/font]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]And more than just images, it is sequence itself that needs to be investigated.[/font]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Several folios are being discussed:[/font]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]VMs You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as Melusine would imply a connection with Valois ancestry.[/font]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]VMs You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as a combination of the Golden Fleece and the 1313 Agnus Dei (Golden Agnus) -more focused on Burgundy[/font]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]VMs You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as the empty rainbow throne for la sainte Hostie de Dijon. (an obscure historical event and a perfect chronological fit)[/font]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]If this is a series, what about VMs f80v? The page does't look that exciting. There is a large pool, with women wading in two rows, Eight in each row. Sixteen nymphs in a sea green pool. Is there anything particular about that? (Secondary interpretations or a deeper meaning?) Does You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. have something to continue the sequence Or does this break it?[/font]
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| Burma Shave |
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Posted by: R. Sale - 22-06-2020, 07:47 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk
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In a recent series of postings, someone made a comment using the term "Burma Shave". Since then I have wondered how many of the ninja group might actually have an accurate cultural interpretation for this old, rural American tradition.
So, a question to everyone: Did you know about it *before* you looked it up? Sure there are those signs and poems and so on. But that's not it. The thing is that along country roads and highways, these signs were nailed to fence posts, sometimes a quarter mile apart. What matters in the interpretation of tradition is understanding the situation on the ground.
The tradition of Melusine in the Valois dukes of France is confirmed in the evidence of the Duke of Berry and continued two generations after in his brother's line in Burgundy. This is the situation on the ground. Research has recovered the images in the de Metz text from Paris (Harley 334). Who is it that was pictured on f57? According to the tradition on the ground, this is Melusine. There is no alternative, unless 'anonymous' is satisfactory.
So now, if we come to the VMs with an adequate background in established tradition during the historical period provided by the C-14 parchment dates, then who is Ms. Ladyfish on VMs f79v? It is Melusine! And the exact details of the representation are not relevant. The time and the difficulty involved in this recognition are an indication of the magnitude of the cultural gap in the interpretation of tradition.
These signs are clear:
Harley 334 is dated to the second quarter of the 1400s, (1425-1449), or, alternatively, 1430-1440.
The Golden Fleece is 1430 and after in Burgundy.
La sainte Hostie de Dijon starts in the early 1430s, probably 1433.
...
And the last sign says; "Burma Shave".
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| Sitting on a rainbow? |
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Posted by: R. Sale - 19-06-2020, 11:34 PM - Forum: Imagery
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Who's that sitting on the medieval rainbow? There are Christian representations and there are classical deities also.
Who's that not sitting on a rainbow in VMs f82v? The VMs double rainbow is vacant. Who is it not sitting there? Not Dr. Who. It could be any of the relevant possibilities either Christian or classical. It could be any one of those possibilities from a modern perspective.
Tradition indicates the opposite. If previous historical implications are any guide, this is an interesting possibility that connects to Philip the Good, and dates to 1433. Dijon is the Burgundian capital at that time.
The Sacred Bleeding Host of Dijon:
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Sitting on a rainbow - or not. This seems to be part of a pattern put forth is some other parts of the VMs. First - the oak and ivy - whatever is discordant can be combined. Second - whatever is synonymous, whatever belongs together can be separated. In this case the double rainbow throne and its essential occupant have been separated.
While identifying an absent figure really is hypothetical, there is the clear potential for historical confluence regarding the traditions of Melusine, the Golden Fleece as the 1313 Agnus Dei, and Sainte Hostie as the missing occupant of the rainbow throne.
And the close arrangement of these folios in the VMs. How is that a coincidence?
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![[Image: 2020-06-27-14-10-38-Voyage-the-Voynich-Manuscript.png]](https://i.ibb.co/F0Msm2r/2020-06-27-14-10-38-Voyage-the-Voynich-Manuscript.png)
![[Image: image.jpg?q=f24r-201-441-132-54]](https://voynich.ninja/extractor/image.jpg?q=f24r-201-441-132-54)