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New analysis of f116v, Central Bavarian dialect
- New analysis of f116v, Central Bavarian dialect
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RE: New analysis of f116v, Central Bavarian dialect
Zauriek > Today, 06:00 AM
Based on what some experts say, the + is a clear indication it is a charm. And recepies are like like vertical listings in medieval manuscripts, right? -
RE: New analysis of f116v, Central Bavarian dialect
Aga Tentakulus > Today, 07:28 AM
These are sayings.
As you can see above, the “x” here is a sharp ‘s’ (double “ss”).
This has all been discussed countless times.
I'm sure Koen has dozens of sayings like this in his archive.
But I'm not willing to repeat everything 100 times just because people are too lazy to read. -
RE: New analysis of f116v, Central Bavarian dialect
JoJo_Jost > Today, 07:56 AM
(Today, 07:28 AM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.These are sayings.
As you can see above, the “x” here is a sharp ‘s’ (double “ss”).
This has all been discussed countless times.
I'm sure Koen has dozens of sayings like this in his archive.
But I'm not willing to repeat everything 100 times just because people are too lazy to read.
??? That was not my question.
You write: If you replace the “x” in “six, marix morix vix” with an “s,” you get a saying. It's in Latin, and according to the dictionary, it's error-free.
sis maris moris vis abeat maria = “Bock, die with the power of the Holy Mary.”
Where did you get that translation from? What are the latin word roots you used for that translation? I wanted examples of that I dont undestand ur translation, thats all. -
RE: New analysis of f116v, Central Bavarian dialect
Jorge_Stolfi > Today, 07:57 AM
(Today, 07:28 AM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.But I'm not willing to repeat everything 100 times just because people are too lazy to read.
Well, for my part, I find it disappointing that people are too lazy to read all my 2,112 2,113 posts. But I understand, and do not hold that against them.
All the best, --stolfi -
RE: New analysis of f116v, Central Bavarian dialect
Aga Tentakulus > Today, 08:21 AM
(Today, 07:56 AM)JoJo_Jost Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.??? That was not my question.
I've explained this example several times already.
I even used excerpts from the dictionary to illustrate it and translated all of the excerpts into English.
Example: “die or perish” -
RE: New analysis of f116v, Central Bavarian dialect
Aga Tentakulus > Today, 08:56 AM
@Stolfi
I found an example here.
“portas” could be used to mean “gate,” but in context, it’s different. Only the context makes that clear.
This is just an example to illustrate what I was saying.
I don’t remember where I found it anymore.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. -
RE: New analysis of f116v, Central Bavarian dialect
JustAnotherTheory > 11 hours ago
(Yesterday, 09:16 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."Poxleber" has been found only once as an extremely rare spelling variation of the common "pocksleber" in a ca. 1500 law of the city of Kitzbuhel (Tyrol). Here, it is nothing more than a cut of meat, the liver of the male goat.
"Poxleber" has been found a few times in the work of Hans Sachs, as extremely vulgar curses uttered by peasants in his ca. 1550 carnival plays. Today's words with the same impact would be of a sexual nature, like motherf*cker or c*cks*cker. Anyone who for some reason still wishes to champion this reading should keep that in mind. It's not as mild as "goddammit" sounds today, which is why it's only written down 100 years after the VM was made, in carnivalesque contexts.
To me, this indicates that the marginalia was added probably after 1500. Is there any reason to think otherwise?
Perhaps this indicates that the VMS, after its creation in the early 1400s Northern Italy, found its way to Tyrol. -
RE: New analysis of f116v, Central Bavarian dialect
JoJo_Jost > 11 hours ago
So even if you translated the individual words that way, it still wouldn't be a grammatically correct sentence. But anyway, I'm not that good at Latin—it's been too long... -
RE: New analysis of f116v, Central Bavarian dialect
Koen G > 11 hours ago
(11 hours ago)JustAnotherTheory Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.To me, this indicates that the marginalia was added probably after 1500. Is there any reason to think otherwise?
Based on the handwriting, we are almost certain that the marginalia were written in the early 15th century.
The big problem is the "x" in "pox". German writers weren't too keen on the letter x, generally. You most often see it in Roman numerals, Latin loan words and a small set of other words. Replacing "cks" with "x" is very rare. Hence, the spelling of "pocks" as "pox" is also very rare. It's not impossible, but we're just unlikely to find any attestations.
What Hans Sachs writes in his vulgar dialogues ca. 1550 is as relevant to the VM as the swallowtail merlons of the Kremlin walls, which is to say, not relevant at all.
As for the goat liver in the Kitzbuhel law, this is only one attestation, which does not allow us to draw any conclusions about time and place. It's not because one scribe wrote poxleber once in one book, that only that scribe was able to write this word.
Aga: I'm not sure if I'm following. The final letters in the VM are "x", those in the fragment you show are short-s. They are a different kind of charm words. Short words ending in x (rex pax nax type) vs words with Latin endings like -us. -
RE: New analysis of f116v, Central Bavarian dialect
Aga Tentakulus > 11 hours ago
(11 hours ago)JoJo_Jost Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.So even if you translated the individual words that way, it still wouldn't be a grammatically correct sentence.
It doesn't have to, because they're keywords separated by the + sign. But it still tells a story.
It's just a curse.