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Voynich through Phonetic Irish
- Voynich through Phonetic Irish
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RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
Doireannjane > 10-11-2025, 02:52 PM
(10-11-2025, 02:35 PM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Could you check if I placed all the labels correctly so far?
Yes, Yes! Yay! I posted another image with labels! And I posted 78r labeled earlier as well. Thank you again.
Also! Someone was asking about 65/r in a different thread.
This is what I have for 65r:
1. athchoirt docht olaigh
2. ahCHrt docht olai
3. Beeswing extract (literally reads Beeswing tight oil)
65r
athchoirt, f. (gs. ~e). (Of wine) Beeswing.
docht1, a. (gsm. ~, gsf. & comp. doichte, npl. ~a).Tight, close; stiff, rigid; strict, hard. Greim ~, tight grip. Snaidhm dhocht, tight knot. Rún ~, close secret. Gaoth dhocht, stiff wind. Obair dhocht, tough work. Riail dhocht, strict rule. Buille ~, severe blow. Fearsaid dhocht, rigid axle. Tairne ~, firmly-fixed nail. Ceangailte, dúnta, go ~, tightly bound, closed. Tá sé ~ faoi airgead, he is close-fisted about money. Tá na bróga seo ~ ar mo chosa, these shoes are pinching my feet. Is ~ an t-oibrí é, he is a hard, stubborn, worker. Ba dhocht a cheil sé é, he concealed it closely. Níor dhocht a dhaonnacht, his humanity was not restricted. Ná bíodh do chroí chomh ~ sin, don’t be so hard-hearted.
olaigh1, v.t. (vn. olú m, gs. -ithe). Oil; anoint. (Var: oláil) -
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
oshfdk > 10-11-2025, 03:32 PM
Are these two labels the same or different? If different, which glyphs are different according to your interpretation?
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RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
Doireannjane > 10-11-2025, 03:49 PM
(10-11-2025, 03:32 PM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Are these two labels the same or different? If different, which glyphs are different according to your interpretation?
Ah sound (o with towers) at the beginning is the prefix for RE. Like reorder for example.
The A alone (o) is also sometimes silent and sometimes not. Also 1. is missing the ó at the end of the word (this means a "from" or "of" precedes the word) -
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
rikforto > 10-11-2025, 04:04 PM
(10-11-2025, 03:49 PM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The A alone (o) is also sometimes silent and sometimes not. Also 1. is missing the ó at the end of the word (this means a "from" or "of" precedes the word)
Is there a principled reason for this? That is, can I or someone else look at these two instances of otedol and know which reading to choose?
You might better understand some of the objections here to know that without a process, you have introduced a degree of freedom, and the more times you do this, the more your solution looks arbitrary. -
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
Doireannjane > 10-11-2025, 04:11 PM
I have several video lessons but they take a long time to update on Youtube and they won't upload here. I can do one of those lives on Youtube, or I can make a zoom meeting. Would that work? Is that accessible for everyone?
It's pretty straight forward once the sounds are understood, this is language it isn't a ciper x=x. This takes time and patience. What I did once my lexicon was situated is I created a phonetic map to understand what to search phonetically using different spellings than how they sound. I used the pronunciation guide religiously : You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
One example is Beeswing, that word is spelled in modern time Athchoirt but it's actually AH OY RT if you say that out loud, a CH sound appears. -
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
Doireannjane > 10-11-2025, 04:17 PM
(10-11-2025, 04:04 PM)rikforto Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(10-11-2025, 03:49 PM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The A alone (o) is also sometimes silent and sometimes not. Also 1. is missing the ó at the end of the word (this means a "from" or "of" precedes the word)
Is there a principled reason for this? That is, can I or someone else look at these two instances of otedol and know which reading to choose?
You might better understand some of the objections here to know that without a process, you have introduced a degree of freedom, and the more times you do this, the more your solution looks arbitrary. -
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
Doireannjane > 10-11-2025, 04:23 PM
(10-11-2025, 03:32 PM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Are these two labels the same or different? If different, which glyphs are different according to your interpretation?
(responding to Oshfdk)
I understand this objection. I genuinely don't know why I chose one over the other there, but they mean the same. Elopement = "to go from" no? The words are combined to form a new word, like ATHOIGE (phonetic =ah OY eg) on the constellation section. ATH means re, OIGE means youth. AGHOIGE=rejuvenation. So they're not really different
Irish is so beautiful. -
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
Doireannjane > 10-11-2025, 04:41 PM
(10-11-2025, 04:17 PM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(10-11-2025, 04:04 PM)rikforto Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(10-11-2025, 03:49 PM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The A alone (o) is also sometimes silent and sometimes not. Also 1. is missing the ó at the end of the word (this means a "from" or "of" precedes the word)
Is there a principled reason for this? That is, can I or someone else look at these two instances of otedol and know which reading to choose?
You might better understand some of the objections here to know that without a process, you have introduced a degree of freedom, and the more times you do this, the more your solution looks arbitrary.
Oh no freedom was used. They're the same word essentially, since it's phonetic. I genuinely don't know why I chose one over the other there. It must have been the sound of the word that came before. -
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
oshfdk > 10-11-2025, 05:02 PM
(10-11-2025, 04:23 PM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I understand this objection. I genuinely don't know why I chose one over the other there, but they mean the same. Elopement = "to go from" no? The words are combined to form a new word, like ATHOIGE (phonetic =ah OY eg) on the constellation section. ATH means re, OIGE means youth. AGHOIGE=rejuvenation. So they're not really different
Irish is so beautiful.
This wasn't an objection, I'm still trying to understand how your approach works, using these examples.
These two labels, are they spelled the same in the manuscript or differently? In other words, would swapping them affect the reading or meaning in any way or not? -
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
rikforto > 10-11-2025, 05:16 PM
It is not "essentially" the same word! For starters, they have radically different phonetic values, so even if they are syntactically and semantically interchangeable you need to explain how you arrived at one over the other or you are relying on degrees of freedom. But as it so happens, in your chosen dictionary, they are syntactically quite different as one is a noun and the other is a verb, so a process for distinguishing between the two is not trivial. And even if you coerce the word meaning "elopement" into "elope" (which is a degree of freedom I did not notice before) so that the part of speech matches, eloping is a very different sense of going, usually meaning to leave home but also including the sense of running away with a lover or getting married to them, so the semantics here are, charitably, quite stretched.