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Voynich through Phonetic Irish
- Voynich through Phonetic Irish
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RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
nablator > 09-11-2025, 08:15 PM
(09-11-2025, 08:02 PM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Let me be clear haha, I'm not cherry picking.
I was asking Ruby, who has been doing the same thing for years, i.e. cherry-picking words, and never posting the correspondence between EVA and Greek. Sorry for interrupting.
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RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
Doireannjane > 09-11-2025, 08:24 PM
(09-11-2025, 08:01 PM)tavie Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hi Doireann,
Some of our members aren't native English speakers and copy paste text into an online translator, but that's not possible if the text is within a picture. So that's why you might receive requests for text rather than images of text.
I'd also recommend you watch Koen's video You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. Despite the title being about the Turkish solution, most of it is about common flaws found in all solutions. This includes "leave the foot" style translations (around the 25 minute mark), and I'm afraid yours don't sound any more coherent than those. It's really easy for people to find words in any language they choose in the Voynich. It's another matter for them to make any kind of sense when put together.
Ah ok. I'll post text to them.
I would not consider myself either of those examples. I love this video though, thank you. I was going to continue on my way with my work since it's been a fun solo hobby. I felt pressure as I saw someone had very recently updated an article from May 2019 (about David Cheshire) with some of my findings. (without updating the date at all, or information about the edits)
I just want to get this solidified and be properly cited if that sort of thing is the case.
I have so much of this translated. I've been working for a year. I don't want other's to finish it at all. I want repeatability demonstrated. I have Functional sentences. Roots and plants properly identified. I have historical discoveries. For example one plant that is the original name of a plant "potato apple crowfoot". This is now called "stinking hellebore". We would have no idea what it had been called. If you look up images, you'll understand why. That is not random. I also didn't seek it out. I find that incredibly remarkable that this plant was once called an indicative name.
I might be delusional but please entertain me haha
(09-11-2025, 07:47 PM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(09-11-2025, 06:59 PM)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Do I still need to explain the difference between text and image?
I give up.
All the best !
Ok! I don't understand what you mean. Take care!
I genuinely didn't understand, sorry here's one
Folio 15r As written on line 2 and 3-
fiáin2, a1. Wild. 1. Uncultivated. Talamh ~, wild land, wilderness. Dúiche fhiáin, wild country. S.a. COIRCE 2, RAIDIS.
fáibhile, m. (gs. ~, pl. -lí). Beech-tree. ~ rua, crón, copper beech(-tree).
Excerpt from 15r, literal translation-
“Dreaming of fairy dwelling reapportioned(divided) boundary grants (with) hand a natural clearance forms bright bounding bream (middle english- breme) uncultivated copper beech tree, radial reel(type of dance) where floral joined at pole from end to end naturally through, from drawing near solidly based reed, coil natural holes through dense mass of copper beech tree, from end to end revolving circle arrive meeting, flow back” -
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
Doireannjane > 09-11-2025, 09:16 PM
I'm posting several of my TikToks this afternoon to youtube so they're easily accessible. The proper more involved lessons will be up later tonight. I'll probably get rid of the quick posts I did yesterday. The first video from TikTok I posted goes over how I'm sounding out a word and searching for it on Teanglann(linked below) There is no cherry picking. I'm searching and the first word or a suggestion that's phonetically adjacent is there. These words I then check with an etymology dictionary to ensure they were around in 1400s. It is shockingly easy/simple. Someone mentioned that here actually haha, I don't disagree. It is incredibly simple.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. -
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
rikforto > 09-11-2025, 09:45 PM
(09-11-2025, 09:16 PM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I'm posting several of my TikToks this afternoon to youtube so they're easily accessible. The proper more involved lessons will be up later tonight. I'll probably get rid of the quick posts I did yesterday. The first video from TikTok I posted goes over how I'm sounding out a word and searching for it on Teanglann(linked below) There is no cherry picking. I'm searching and the first word or a suggestion that's phonetically adjacent is there. These words I then check with an etymology dictionary to ensure they were around in 1400s. It is shockingly easy/simple. Someone mentioned that here actually haha, I don't disagree. It is incredibly simple.
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Three things so far: First, from this I don't see how to get the phonetic reading. (How do you deal with Voynichese's famously odd letter ordering?) Second, despite your claims, you do choose a dictionary entry, that is what is literally happening at ~1:52. In order for someone to replicate this, you will need to explain how you determined phonetic closeness here. Finally, I have serious reservations about the translation. "Tender maidens shelter little throng gossamer in spot of ground basin in little ford a small space of time gives what is needed" is, to put it mildly, gibberish. I will admit to not knowing Irish so I will have to defer if you've got speakers saying that's a well-formed Irish sentence in need of a colloquial translation, but I do have some formal linguistics behind me when I say those are very odd constructions for a European language! From what I can see, this looks a lot like the Turkish solution so far -
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
oshfdk > 09-11-2025, 09:47 PM
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RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
Doireannjane > 09-11-2025, 10:53 PM
(09-11-2025, 09:47 PM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Line 48 from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. has two words which appear similar to the labels the transcriptions of which you have provided. From your point of view, are these the same words or not? Could you provide a reading for this line from f76r?
So most of the text is instructional like this. This is a little disorganized, I tried to clean it up
76r
Literal translation is as follows:
Each hole small levee small tree, add to flower, remake or rearrange move a little layer a dash
- my understanding:
For each hole levee small tree(s), add flower, rearrange, move a little layer, just a smidge
THis is a combination of two word pronounced exactly what is written Chuile:
gach, a. & s. 1. a. Every, each. (a) ~ duine, rud, every person, thing. ~ lá den bhliain, every day of the year. ~ uair dá bhfeicim é, every time I see him. As ~ aird, from all directions. ~ leathuair, every half hour. ~ maith, every good thing, everything that is good. ~ aon, ~ uile, every.
bréifin, f. (gs. -fne, pl. -fní). 1. Perforation, hole. 2. Anat: Foramen.
leibhé, m. (gs. ~, pl. ~anna). Geog: Levée. WITH SMALL DIMINUTIVE
little levee
--- possibly related: feadhain
----- or diminutive of:
fiodh1, m. (gs. feá, pl. feánna). 1. Tree. 2. Wood, timber. S.a. COILEACH1 1(b), FIAIRE 2. 3 = IODH.
fuill, v.t. (vn. ~eamh). Lit: Add to, increase.
antó(i)-, pref. Anth(o)-
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.-
athdhéan, v.t. (vn. ~amh). Redo, remake. Ní féidir thú a ~amh, you are incorrigible.
Although It sounds most like the beginning of this: athéadach, m. (gs. -aigh). Cast-off clothes.
and possibly Juh sound of below atheaJin (in process of rearranging or rearranged)
atheagar, m. (gs. -air). 1. Rearrangement; reorganization. 2. Recension.
move a little: Diminutive of below
téigh2, v.t. & i. (pres. téann; fut. rachaidh; p. chuaigh, aut. chuathas, dep. deachaigh, dep. aut. deachthas; vn. dul, pp. dulta). Go. 1. Move, proceed. (a) Dul ó áit go háit, abhaile, go Meiriceá, to go from place to place, home, to America. Dul soir, suas, anonn agus anall, isteach sa teach, to go east, up, to and fro, into the house. Cá ndeachaigh siad? Where did they go? (b) (With noun as complement) Dul an bóthar, to go along the road; to go by road. ~ an bealach seo, go this way. Rachaimid amach an sliabh, we will go out over the mountain. Chuaigh seisean an t-áth agus mise an clochán, he went by the ford and I went by the stepping-stones. © Ag dul leathchéad míle san uair, going fifty miles an hour. 2. (a) Extend in certain direction.
Layer (or possibly another listed word, layer makes sense given the instructions)
bréidín1, m. (gs. ~, pl. ~í). 1. Dim. of BRÉID1. 2. Homespun cloth; tweed. ~ bán, white homespun. 3. Kerchief. 4. (pl.) Gossamer. 5. Layer.
Fhobhoi
(linked spelling wise historically on Teannglan to this word)
fogha2, m. (gs. ~, pl. ~nna). 1. Dart, lunge; rush, attack. ~ a thabhairt faoi dhuine, to make a dart at, attack, s.o. ~ a bhaint as duine, (i) to make a snap at s.o., (ii) to criticize s.o. sharply. Níor bhain sé ~ ná easpa asam, he didn’t hurt me in the least. Shíl sé ~ (magaidh) a bhaint asam, he thought he could have a bit of fun at my expense. 2. Short run, quick effort. ~ oibre, spurt of work. ~ a thabhairt amach faoin tír, to take a quick run out into the country. Tabhair ~ isteach chugainn ar do bhealach, drop in to see us on your way. Ní raibh ann ach ~ fóisí, it was only a spurt. 3. Short interval.
(For a) 3. Short interval. Thug sé ~ beag do na ba ar na cinnfhearainn, he gave the cows a short run (of grazing) along the headlands. Tabhair ~ den rámhainn dom, lend me the spade for a short while. 4. Slight admixture, dash.
78r start of tube - accept drink drink (glug glug connotation)
makes sense with image
at start of -
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
Doireannjane > 10-11-2025, 01:31 AM
(09-11-2025, 09:45 PM)rikforto Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(09-11-2025, 09:16 PM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I'm posting several of my TikToks this afternoon to youtube so they're easily accessible. The proper more involved lessons will be up later tonight. I'll probably get rid of the quick posts I did yesterday. The first video from TikTok I posted goes over how I'm sounding out a word and searching for it on Teanglann(linked below) There is no cherry picking. I'm searching and the first word or a suggestion that's phonetically adjacent is there. These words I then check with an etymology dictionary to ensure they were around in 1400s. It is shockingly easy/simple. Someone mentioned that here actually haha, I don't disagree. It is incredibly simple.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Three things so far: First, from this I don't see how to get the phonetic reading. (How do you deal with Voynichese's famously odd letter ordering?) Second, despite your claims, you do choose a dictionary entry, that is what is literally happening at ~1:52. In order for someone to replicate this, you will need to explain how you determined phonetic closeness here. Finally, I have serious reservations about the translation. "Tender maidens shelter little throng gossamer in spot of ground basin in little ford a small space of time gives what is needed" is, to put it mildly, gibberish. I will admit to not knowing Irish so I will have to defer if you've got speakers saying that's a well-formed Irish sentence in need of a colloquial translation, but I do have some formal linguistics behind me when I say those are very odd constructions for a European language! From what I can see, this looks a lot like the Turkish solution so far
Thanks for this. This is not like the Turkish solution (although I haven't seen or read much of it)
The order of Irish sentences are particularly different from English, it's VSO. Above that is the literal translation WITHOUT embellishments nor any reordering nor punctuation to fit closer to English (although ordering from Tain Bo is significantly different from Modern Irish) To fit something English oriented the sentence words would have to be reordered. In my process I don't do that until the last step. It would likely be closer to:
Tender Maiden's (this is possessive) shelter (in or a implied) little throng gossamer in a spot in the ground. Basin in little ford, a small space of time. What is needed is given
I don't go over all the phonetics in the short video, but what I've done is listened to the three dialects for everything since I started. I know what sounds can be constructed using the same glyphs, differing glyphs or combinations of glyphs. My sounding is not entirely accurate but we don't know how Medieval Irish sounded or what dialect this was written phonetically in. From Tain Bo you can see that the text is phonetically the same using MODERN Irish. It is just like that game Guess the Gibberish where you get a sentence of gibberish to read out loud and everyone hears the sentence but you because you're seeing gibberish but it's written phonetically comparably.
This has taken a long time to sort out. It started organically and again, the glyphs are logical and connected visually to the alphabets I mention. -
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
Kaybo > 10-11-2025, 01:58 AM
"stinking hellebore" was not a plant growing in 1400 in Ireland. So either it is some work talking about plants in other regions or a work in exile. Also the vellum would be a bit special for Ireland around 1400- But everything is possible.
In general I think it would be more easy to go to the zodiac part and use your method and look what we have there. Then go back to the text parts and check if the words you translated make senses in the text context. Also I am pretty sure the P you included in your translation is a paragraph sign. However, it could be a very unique rule to start a paragraph always with a T oder what ever the P stands for. -
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
Doireannjane > 10-11-2025, 02:10 AM
(10-11-2025, 01:58 AM)Kaybo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."stinking hellebore" was not a plant growing in 1400 in Ireland. So either it is some work talking about plants in other regions or a work in exile. Also the vellum would be a bit special for Ireland around 1400- But everything is possible.
Can you give better examples of your translation efforts? Because I dont understand it yet.
Yes certainly! And great point. I never say that this is from Ireland nor that the plants are exclusive to Ireland. This is certainly not the case. Dittany is from Crete. This is most likely from Italy but the plants are from many places in Europe in the 1400s. -
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish
Doireannjane > 10-11-2025, 02:43 AM
Thank you all for the questions and helping me get this peer reviewed. I have over 200 github commits dating back since last year. Video will be up soon. Here's another image using my lexicon and applied phonetics. Rejuvenation appears also in constellation section, I mention this on my TikTok too. There's also a homonym here (brEYdin)- bréidín (gossamer) in the other post but diminutive of brí here.
78r start of tube - accept drink drink (glug glug connotation)
makes sense with image
From left to right tube ladies:
Homewards from middle(or inner parts)
from dear drink, little quantity from gully
rejuvenation
from large portion
1. abhaile, adv. Home, homewards.
bail1, f. (gs. ~e). 1. Prosperity. Ar ~ agus ar biseach, prospering and increasing. ~ Dé oraibh, ~ ó Dhia oraibh, God prosper you. ~ ó Dhia ar an obair, God bless the work. Is breá an leanbh é, ~ (ó Dhia) air, he is a fine child, God bless him. Tá ~ agus bláth ar an áit aige, he has the place in a prosperous condition. Ní bheidh rath ná ~ ar a leithéidí sin, the likes of those cannot prosper. Prov: Is fearr ~ ná iomad, ‘better enough than too much’. 2. Proper condition.
2. (historical relation to spelling in image) inmhe, f. (gs. ~). 1. Lit: Wealth, estate; position in life, condition. Neart agus ~ shaolta, power and worldly wealth. Dul in ~, to prosper. Ar fágadh mar ~ aige, all that was left to him as his portion. Trua gan tusa i m’~, I wish you were in my position. Ceann ~, goal (of ambition). 2. Maturity, strength.
inne1, m. (gs. ~, pl. inní). 1. (Usually pl.) Inner parts; bowels, guts. Na hinní a bhaint as rud, to disembowel sth. 2. Middle, centre. In ~ (an) lae, d’~ lae, in the middle of the day. In ~ na talún, in the bowels of the earth. Lit: In ~ a dtreibhe, in the midst of their tribe. 3. Inner feelings. Inní na trócaire, the bowels of mercy. 4. Lit: Intrinsic nature, essence, quality.
a fada preceding = from
3. ól1, m. (gs. as s. óil, as vn. ~ta). 1. vn. of ÓL2. 2. Drink. (a) Drinking-liquid
an t-~ é, it is a sweet, weak, dear, drink.
4. Diminutive of
brí1, f. (gs. ~, pl. ~onna). 1. Strength, vigour. ~ na hóige, the vigour of youth. Quantity. Ní raibh ~ éisc, óil, ann, there was not much fish, drink, there. Ní dhéanfaidh sé ~ (fearthainne), it won’t rain a lot.
5. fead1, f. (gs. feide, pl. ~anna). 1. (a) Whistle, whistling sound. ~ a dhéanamh, a ligean, a chur (ar, le), to whistle (to, at). ~ a bhaint as rud, to get a whistling sound out of sth. Níl aige ach ~ a ligean ort, you are at his beck and call. Ní raibh ~ ná glao as, there was not a word out of him, he was dumbfounded. ~ dhúbailte, trill, warble. ~ fliúite, toot of flute. ~ piléir, whistle, zip, of bullet. ~ ghlaice, finger-whistle. ~ ghaoithe, sough of wind. ~ bhoilg, ghoile, shrill sound in breathing. Tá ~ bhoilg sa chapall, the horse is broken-winded. Chuir sé ~ ghoile ionam, it knocked the wind out of me. S.a. CÚ 1. (b)Bheith i ndeireadh na feide, to be at the last gasp. 2. Mus: Pipe, reed.
fead2, m. (gs. & npl. fid, gpl. ~). Watercourse, gully.
a fada = from
6. athóige, f. (gs. ~). Rejuvenation.
7. goradh, m. (gs. -rtha). 1. vn. of GOR2. 2. (a) Heating, warming; heat, warmth. Do ghoradh a dhéanamh, to warm oneself (at fire). ~ gréine a thabhairt duit féin, to warm oneself in the sun. Thug sé ~ cúl cos dó féin, he warmed the back of his legs; he stood there with his back to the fire. (b) Metall: Heat. ~ a thabhairt d’iarann, to heat iron. ~ dearg, geal, red, white, heat. ~ a chur ar rud, to solder sth. S.a. GUAL 2. © (Of beating, scolding) Déanfaidh mise a ghoradh, I’ll warm his hide for him. Fuair sé a ghoradh, he got it hot. Níor thuill sé an ~ grua uait, you had no need to make him blush. ~ bruíne, ~ teanga, drubbing, scolding. 3. Hatching, incubation. ~ uibheacha, eochraí, hatching of eggs, of spawn. 4. (a) Large portion; large meal. ~ airgid, a lot of money. ~ prátaí, ‘feed’ of potatoes. (b) ~ a bhaint as an bpíopa, to take a pull of the pipe.
a fada =from