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Getting close to a source for f85r2
- Getting close to a source for f85r2
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RE: Getting close to a source for f85r2
R. Sale > 09-01-2025, 01:54 AM
Just a vague recollection that the "doctor of urinalysis" had been investigated before but not finding it.
There doesn't seem to be a viable alternative to being a doctor. Thing is to find some references on the early side of 1450.
Practically impossible to believe that the painter put a button on top of the hat, but someone painted the lips on the nymphs and that's a level of fine detail.
The problem is the three circular thingy-doodles. A rosary would be the expectation, but there are three of them. Maybe it's three rosaries badly drawn - for emphasis. -
RE: Getting close to a source for f85r2
Bluetoes101 > 09-01-2025, 02:52 AM
Once you see this as a self defence class with increasingly inept students it is really hard to unsee
On a serious note though the urine sample / cap combo is a pretty good comparison
![[Image: selfdef.jpg]](https://i.postimg.cc/mrwmDgrW/selfdef.jpg)
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RE: Getting close to a source for f85r2
ReneZ > 09-01-2025, 07:44 AM
I, for one, think that this is an excellent find!
I cannot see any form of coincidence at work here, and that the details are different just tells me that the two manuscripts are not in a direct connection with each other.
The Karlsruhe is at least 2, perhaps 3 decades later, and I don't think that anyone expects serious manuscripts to be copied from the Voynich.
Not only telling is that three consecutive drawings show the same motif, equally telling is that there is nothing similar for the fourth. That is nothing disturbing, it is just more evidence of the 'distance' between the two MSS.
One thing to find out is (after hopefully having located more copies) if three or four is the 'traditional' number.
If it is three, then this means that the Voynich authors added one.
If it is four, then I would expect this fourth one to be more varied. Alternatively, in the Karlsruhe MS it could just be missing.
Beside being after the three, it could also be before them.
All sorts of possibilities are still open.
The Voynich 'artist' could just have drawn from a (vague) memory.
He could also have drawn from a textual description.
In both cases, no great similarity is to be expected.
I do think that it is important to find more copies of this text.
Finally, I strongly suspect that there could be publications that cover this group of pictures, and that would also be helpful. -
RE: Getting close to a source for f85r2
bi3mw > 09-01-2025, 03:19 PM
In Marco's post You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., the illustrations represent part of the seasonal cycle of the year (fall and winter). The text below and next to the physician also talks about the four seasons and appropriate, proper behavior. This offers a new perspective when looking at f85r2.
edit: The idea of four seasons is not new. Here is a discussion on Stephen Bax's website. The topic is of course viewed from a different perspective.
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RE: Getting close to a source for f85r2
Koen G > 09-01-2025, 08:25 PM
A slender flask. My favorite so far is this guy nonchalantly handing in the bucket of green urine he produced. Quite the contrast.
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RE: Getting close to a source for f85r2
Koen G > 09-01-2025, 09:59 PM
(09-01-2025, 03:19 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
edit: The idea of four seasons is not new. Here is a discussion on Stephen Bax's website. The topic is of course viewed from a different perspective.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
2014... One of Marco's earliest contributions to the study? I also seem to recall we discussed the woman as old age before. So I'm definitely not presenting a novel idea. Not any other idea, really. It was the sequence of images I found remarkable. -
RE: Getting close to a source for f85r2
bi3mw > 09-01-2025, 10:39 PM
(09-01-2025, 09:59 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(09-01-2025, 03:19 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
edit: The idea of four seasons is not new. Here is a discussion on Stephen Bax's website. The topic is of course viewed from a different perspective.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
2014... One of Marco's earliest contributions to the study? I also seem to recall we discussed the woman as old age before. So I'm definitely not presenting a novel idea. Not any other idea, really. It was the sequence of images I found remarkable.
The pictorial sequence in the “1491 Printed edition” ( post #23 ) presented by Marco is the same as yours. However, since the illustrations there are labeled “Autumn” and “Winter”, the idea of the seasons suggests itself to me. This is all the more true as the text beside the physician, as I said, also refers to the seasons. I would even speculate that the fourth figure, which does not appear in the sequence, refers to spring. But what is missing is summer. Perhaps the illustrator has simply left it out of the f85r2 so that there are only four symbols or “Summer” could be represented by the sun in the center.
The old woman ( in a rowing boat ) as a symbol for winter, for example, is depicted in this cycle of the four seasons.
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