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Getting close to a source for f85r2
- Getting close to a source for f85r2
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RE: Getting close to a source for f85r2
Koen G > 08-01-2025, 07:52 PM
The doctor on the left is in fact wearing a blue doctor's hat. The website I linked earlier called this "cappa", but I haven't found a good resource on this. Blue versions may be more common in earlier manuscripts. But I suspect that the ones on the rosettes recto diagrams were supposed to be red to begin with. -
RE: Getting close to a source for f85r2
R. Sale > 08-01-2025, 09:22 PM
I think you're on the track of a valid interpretation. However, the maiden with a flower is quite a common pose. Is the comparable person in the VMs even female? The doctor holding his flask to the light is also a standard pose but not used as often. [Did Nick Pelling do a thing on doctors years ago?] The lady with the cane and the rosary is problematic and the key to the comparison. What is the explanation for the construction going on in the VMs illustration where the rosary should be?
I used to see those three circular structures as massive links in a chain, although the lines drawn are extremely irregular. In heraldry a chain is used to denote "a reward for acceptable and weighty service." Does the lady then hold a chain of three rosaries?
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RE: Getting close to a source for f85r2
Koen G > 08-01-2025, 11:00 PM
I must have missed Nick's post on doctors (or not paid enough attention to it). Which one do you mean?
The doctor with his flask is indeed a standard pose. Or rather, I think it was once introduced and then copied many times over (and over and over). It might mean as much as "this is a doctor". It often goes together with the featureless cap, as seen in this 1410's image of Aesculapius from de Pizan:
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Again, note the cap. Headgear shows one's station. The VM artist went all out here to draw a colored, smooth cap despite their lack of colors on this page.
I've also noticed that in these depictions, from Pizan to printed works, the patients are often shown with some kind of basket in hand. Did they transport the sample in that? Is it something else?
Regarding the rosary, the three rings are weird. They aren't really linked either. Did someone ever explain this with actual examples? If it were one chain, I'd say Senium can have a similar one. But it's three kind of touching ones. I think they started from a rosary, but then either misinterpreted it or made it into something else. Like the gears of a clock or something. I don't know, it would be good to have an earlier source.
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Edit: I've been calling the caps featureless but upon closer inspection, they often have a very small "bump" in the middle. The VM cap has this in the paint but apparently not in the outline? -
RE: Getting close to a source for f85r2
nablator > 08-01-2025, 11:24 PM
(08-01-2025, 11:00 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Edit: I've been calling the caps featureless but upon closer inspection, they often have a very small "bump" in the middle. The VM cap has this in the paint but apparently not in the outline?
Given the painter's imprecision and carelessness, very small details are not plausible.
The outline connects with the hair perfectly as if there was nothing but hair before the painter added the cap, too low to hide the outline. -
RE: Getting close to a source for f85r2
Koen G > 08-01-2025, 11:33 PM
Why did the painter add the cap? -
RE: Getting close to a source for f85r2
nablator > 08-01-2025, 11:47 PM
(08-01-2025, 11:33 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Why did the painter add the cap?
Ask him/her.
Maybe [s]he thought that it would look better than hair. What [s]he didn't know is that the figure was meant to represent a woman holding a Venitian glass perfume bottle, or the archangel Raphael holding a medicine bottle (yes, it's been proposed, seriously), or <insert your favorite exegesis here>. -
RE: Getting close to a source for f85r2
RobGea > 09-01-2025, 12:11 AM
Here is link to a 1450s -ish MSS, with lots of guys, looking at lots of urine, in a variey of stylish headgear.
Universitätsbibliothek Heidelberg, Cod. Pal. germ. 644 Medizinische Traktate und Rezepte
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(08-01-2025, 11:33 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Why did the painter add the cap?
<RobGea> waits anxiously for the upcoming punchline
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RE: Getting close to a source for f85r2
nablator > 09-01-2025, 12:34 AM
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RE: Getting close to a source for f85r2
Aga Tentakulus > 09-01-2025, 01:32 AM
The bottle appears to be filled with “yellow”. The same dirty yellow he used for the hair.
Good reason for a urine sample.
