In You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. by Stephen Bax he discusses a set of multispectral scans performed by Lazarus Project Imaging.
(27-04-2016, 06:42 PM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.An analysis of the text of the Voynich and a proposed partial solution by You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
The document in English can be downloaded from her website You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. A Russian language version of the document is available You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
Thanks for posting the link, David.
As I see it (I worked through the translation), the "method" consists of
taking the glyphs that look like traditional Latin abbreviations and expanding them into unabbreviated Latin, and then
assigning a variety of letter possibilities to the other glyphs.
I've long said that the abbreviation shapes are traditional Latin but that the meaning behind them may not be.
The problem with interpreting it as Latin is that the STRUCTURE of the VMS text does not follow traditional Latin structure even if the glyphs are shaped and placed in a similar way and even if the person deciphering it builds extra flexibility into it by allowing specific shapes (the ones in between that are not shaped like Latin abbreviations) to have a variety of meanings, as well...
Taking May's translation for Plant 1v as an example... It includes: hot skeletons brought together, sloping ground and gurgled kisses, vanity, beehives, condensing great burdens, songs, warnings... These subjects don't appear to relate to each other in any discernible way even if we assume the text has nothing to do with the plant drawing.
A lot of effort obviously went into this, but looking at May's translation, it comes out like many translations, with a dozen different chunks of subject matter unrelated to each other on the same page (even if you choose the alternative word that seems to work best in relation to the others) and there's no perceivable grammatical coherence, not even the note-style coherence that one sometimes sees in herbal manuscripts, for example (where they jot down characteristics, uses, recipes, etc., without a lot of verbs or joining words).
I'll look at it some more this evening when I have time to give the "Latin" a better read to see if there's anything in that jumble. Unfortunately, I have to run (as usual, I have deadlines).
This is something I find very intriguing, but I think we'll never know the answer. So this is a purely speculative thread.
Is there any part of the time line we know for sure?
And if we speculate, what are some likely ways the MS could have ended up in Prague? Which areas has it likely travelled through?
And how come that not even two centuries after its creation people didn't have any idea about its provenance?
Nick Pelling argues both in his blog (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.) and in his book (the curse of the Voynich) that the aiir/aiiv -groups in the vms might be "fake" medieval page references. I have never encountered any page references looking anything like the aiir/aiiv groups in any medieval texts. How did one provide page references in the 15:th century? Does anyone have examples to share of page references looking anything like these groups?
Thanks!
Posted by: R. Sale - 26-04-2016, 07:34 PM - Forum: Imagery
- No Replies
I wanted to post a new tread and have as many readers as possible looking for additional examples.
In postings #30 and #31 (It's bigger.) of the thread 'Those umbrella/pinecone things', MarcoP has posted an illustration:
Vatikan, Biblioteca Apostolica Vaticana, Pal. lat. 412, Wynandus de Stega, Adamas colluctancium aquilarum — XV Century.
This illustration has an example of an elaborated nebuly line across the middle. Now, for those who have followed this line of investigation, there are a number of good examples of elaborated nebuly lines in blue and white to represent a cloud band. And those who have examined the details of how these patterns were drawn will see a line that is generally smooth and undulating.
Now contrast this with the illustration above, where the line that is used to compose the nebuly line is very jagged. In terms of heraldic examples, this line is mostly of the engrailed / invected type, with small sections that are much like the wavy definition.
Now compare this with the detailed construction of the elaborated nebuly line in the VMs Central Rosette. The description of the line composing the nebuly line has to be that it is of the engrailed / invected type, with small wavy sections. It is the same! It is unusual. Is it unique or not? More evidence appreciated.
Wynandus de Stega, the Latinized version of Winand von Steeg, a German cleric, (1371-1453) - no difficulties there.
I have put the publisher's "blurb" for the essay on folio 86v (Beinecke foliation 85v and 86r) on academia.edu.
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This is one of nine essays to be published in the book, seven (including the essay on the map) are already in the hands of the publisher. The essay included, but expands upon what I've offered online in almost thirty detailed studies since 2011, twenty-six of those shorter articles available through voynichimagery.wordpress.com.
The essays, with index and bibliography is due to be completed by end of this year, pending permissions for the large number of illustrations required.
As always, I am concerned to properly acknowledge precedents, whether or not I consulted them, and am happy to receive emails at voynichimagery ... gmail
Discussions in the Ladies with Rings thread often connected to the imagery on f85r2 aka the Four Ages of Man folio.
So I'm starting this thread to look more in depth at the figures depicted in it, the general structure of the page, etc.
To start things off, here's an image of St Anthony holding similar attributes to the "old age" figure at the bottom of the wheel:
From Officium parvum Beatae Mariae Virginis ad usum Ecclesiae Romanae, France (Picardie?) 1450-1457 Polish National Library Rps 8004 II, f119v.
In You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. I referred to the highly interesting blog(s) of Erik Kwakkel of the university of Leiden (NL).
In case anyone is wondering if he knows about the Voynich MS, do have a look You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. .
Apart from his perhaps not so positive appraisal, the page contains a lot of most interesting stuff.
Several people have brought up this question, pointing to its importance for a variety of reasons, most recently Anton You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
To me this is an open question, so I would like to hear what others think. I'm at home in the small plants section, but have spent little time comparing them with big plants so far.
- I do remember having read in D'Imperio's book that she had a team of determined students trying to match the plants, without success.
- There are more small plants than big plants.
So what are your ideas about this? And what could the amount of matches/mismatches mean?
A while ago, I noticed that this man has six fingers:
I don't know if this was intentional or not, but I do lean towards that interpretation:
- Other figures have five fingers.
- The hand is a focal point of the figure.
- Subjectively, the hand looks more intentionally than accidentally deformed.
So if we assume that this was intentional, then what could it mean? I have no preferred dating or region for this folio, so I'm really open to all possible interpretations.
A basic search brings up You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. by Richard D. Barnett, in which various examples of polydactilism in art are studied. It can refer to a race of giants, "primordial people", indicate magical powers or be seen as a sign of good or bad fortune. Often, the background seems to be biblical, though the trait has a meaning in other cultures as well. The author's conclusion is that there is no clear pattern is visible in the examples.
Then there is the so-called six fingered emperor of Byzantium, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.:
"Many Byzantine Emperors were holy men and are saints of the Greek Orthodox Church, like Saint Ioannis Vatatzis, the Marble Emperor with the six fingers (1222-1254)." (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.)
Again, not too much about his six-fingeredness appears to be known for sure, although a book has been written about it, which can be seen here:
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(I haven't read it yet, doesn't work too well on my pc - don't know if it contains anything of interest).
Finally, there is very anecdotal evidence of people telling that six-finger related myths about royal bloodlines and promised kings are still alive today, like this one, from a Greek American who was born with six fingers:
Quote:...when I was born In Athens the Doctor who was there when I was born went Bananas running up and down the hospital yelling the king is born.I have also found out that one of the Purest Royal bloodlines in Greece and Cyprus also all there first born sons had 6 fingers.
I won't link to the source because it's extremely shameful - they also talk about aliens. If I ever get sick in Greece, I hope I don't end up in that hospital, if this is how their staff behave.
So well, for now I see no clear solution, although something related to a "promised king" does seem like an attractive option.
Any ideas?
![[Image: capture-d_c3a9cran-73.png]](https://voynichviews.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/capture-d_c3a9cran-73.png)
