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+--- Thread: ABCDEFGHI...OPQ on the first page (/thread-803.html)
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ABCDEFGHI...OPQ on the first page - ThomasCoon - 28-09-2016
I was looking at Tom O'Neil's site yesterday to see how his numerology system worked, and it seems he noticed something which hasn't been discussed before (to my knowledge): there is clearly an alphabet on the first page:
ABCDEFGH ... OPQ... UV
It begins on the top right side of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and continues down vertically - here are the first 8 or 9 letters:
After that there is a blank space, but further down we get OPQ and maybe U or V (in the same handwriting as the U/V on f116v):
This could be important for at least two reasons:
1) Anyone who makes a secret code always writes their key somewhere, and the key is usually written next to a plaintext alphabet. I made my own cipher many years ago, and I always wrote the key next to the Roman alphabet, in alphabetical order. This leads to point 2:
2) It is clear that there were Voynichese symbols next to some letters. A clear <d> is seen to the right of "a", and there seems to be an <r> next to the "c". There are many other marks near Roman letters, but it looks like they were smudged out / erased (perhaps so that nobody could read the code). Just take a look at You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. for yourself:
I wonder if this column used to be a key. Imagery people (Koen, Wladimir, Diane, etc.), do you know if there is any way to locate traces of the removed letters using Photoshop?
Last thing: when I break down the VMS into my hypothetical "units", <d> always appeared where a vowel was needed - so <a> could be a perfect fit.
RE: ABCDEFGHI...OPQ on the first page - Emma May Smith - 28-09-2016
It is well known. It is a later addition, most likely by somebody trying to solve it.
RE: ABCDEFGHI...OPQ on the first page - ThomasCoon - 28-09-2016
Ah. Nevermind then.
Anton, you can go ahead and delete this thread, if you want.
RE: ABCDEFGHI...OPQ on the first page - Koen G - 28-09-2016
Those letters have been noticed before - if I recall correctly, JKP wrote a post about it as well but I can't access his site at the moment. He's also pretty good with photoshop so I think his post will give them the best possible shot.
To be honest I have never given this much thought. To me it looks like someone else wrote this in an attempt to crack the "code" and then tried to erase his notes. But who knows...
Edit: Anton beat me too it
RE: ABCDEFGHI...OPQ on the first page - -JKP- - 28-09-2016
It's funny you should bring this up now, Thomas (and that Stellar should bring it up just recently) ...
I have blogged about it in the past but had to put it on the back burner for a while. Then, a couple of nights ago, I wrote a follow-up blog on this subject (haven't uploaded it yet, I have to merge the illustrations with the text) because I've gathered some additional information.
I'll try to get it uploaded this evening.
RE: ABCDEFGHI...OPQ on the first page - Koen G - 28-09-2016
(28-09-2016, 06:56 PM)ThomasCoon Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Ah. Nevermind then.
Anton, you can go ahead and delete this thread, if you want.
It would be good to keep it open for discussion... JKP's upcoming post might provide us with something to talk about
RE: ABCDEFGHI...OPQ on the first page - cool_dude - 21-10-2016
(28-09-2016, 07:20 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It's funny you should bring this up now, Thomas (and that Stellar should bring it up just recently) ...
I have blogged about it in the past but had to put it on the back burner for a while. Then, a couple of nights ago, I wrote a follow-up blog on this subject (haven't uploaded it yet, I have to merge the illustrations with the text) because I've gathered some additional information.
I'll try to get it uploaded this evening.
Hello everybody, I'm a newbie 'round here, just another one who likes to study and admire this incredible book.
Hey JKP, you said you was preparing some information to be blogged about these hidden marks. Are you about to finish it soon? 'Cuz I'm very excited studing it.
It was incredibly coincidental: when I was googling some information about these hidden letters, and found this forum, I realized you guys brought up this subject just some few days before my search, and it was just what made me register an account on this amazing forum.
As you finish it, please send us the links, in case it be posted on another external website.
'Til next time.
(...And sorry about possible English mistakes.)
RE: ABCDEFGHI...OPQ on the first page - -JKP- - 21-10-2016
(21-10-2016, 03:24 AM)cool_dude Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(28-09-2016, 07:20 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It's funny you should bring this up now, Thomas (and that Stellar should bring it up just recently) ...
I have blogged about it in the past but had to put it on the back burner for a while. Then, a couple of nights ago, I wrote a follow-up blog on this subject (haven't uploaded it yet, I have to merge the illustrations with the text) because I've gathered some additional information.
I'll try to get it uploaded this evening.
Hello everybody, I'm a newbie 'round here, just another one who likes to study and admire this incredible book.
Hey JKP, you said you was preparing some information to be blogged about these hidden marks. Are you about to finish it soon? 'Cuz I'm very excited studing it.
It was incredibly coincidental: when I was googling some information about these hidden letters, and found this forum, I realized you guys brought up this subject just some few days before my search, and it was just what made me register an account on this amazing forum.
As you finish it, please send us the links, in case it be posted on another external website.
'Til next time.
(...And sorry about possible English mistakes.)
I'm still trying to get to it. It was 95% finished when I was torn away to do other tings. I need to hunt up a fragment I stored on my hard drive a couple of years ago and splice that onto the main image. Once I find that file (I'm having trouble remembering the filename), it will be good-to-go and I'll upload the link.
RE: ABCDEFGHI...OPQ on the first page - Anton - 21-10-2016
Sorry, I just visited the thread for the first time
I see no problem for the thread to stay open.
I agree that this is most probably an attempt to crack the Voynichese alphabet by some later reader. As it can be noticed, the attempt was in the vein of the simple substituion cipher.
RE: ABCDEFGHI...OPQ on the first page - cool_dude - 22-10-2016
Hello people.
I was researching the page You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. today and, for now, I reached the conclusion that these marks are not something trusteable as "final truth" for the codebreak of Voynich alphabet.
I'm betting on the most evident possibility: that it's really just failed tryies, which somebody sketched MORE THAN ONCE along the marginalia.
My main argument is because there's not just a pair of columns (one for latin characters and other for Voynich ciphers).
If you guys pay attention, there's a THIRD noticeable column, also with LATIN LETTERS. This one is same way hard to read as the pervious two, containing what looks like a "a b c d... f... [erased or absent]"
[img]
![[Image: B0tdtWJ.png]](http://i.imgur.com/B0tdtWJ.png)
[/img]My final conclusion is this third column, as well the first with second, could be possibly just a lot of frustrated attempts someone wrote on page to resolve the mysterious code, without any success. Simple like that...
If someone could sugest a counter argument back to mine, with a good perpective, please reply. I would be glad to receive other points of view.