A match for the containers? 16th-17th century ivory vases

[JustAnotherTheory]

There is an interesting ivory vase collection from the 16th century in Florence, in the Medici Ducal collection of Palazzo Pitti.

   

It appears to me that these ivory objects ressemble the containers in the VMS. Many of these, and indeed others in 16th-17th century ivory vase collections from Italy and South Germany, appear to bear close parallels to the VMS. Note that ivory working was not established before the 16th century.

   

   

   

Now take a look at Rudolf II's collection.

   

   

Again, please note that ivory working began after 1500.

[R. Sale]

Several of these illustrations show relatively elaborate vessels made from other materials.

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[JustAnotherTheory]

Several of these illustrations show relatively elaborate vessels made from other materials.

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Thank you for this. However these do not display:

• the variety of base configurations,
  
• middle sections,
  
• cupole variations,
  

all of which do in fact appear in later 16th and 17th century ivory work, and provide a much better visual match, too.

[proto57]

There is an interesting ivory vase collection from the 16th century in Florence, in the Medici Ducal collection of Palazzo Pitti.

It appears to me that these ivory objects ressemble the containers in the VMS. Many of these, and indeed others in 16th-17th century ivory vase collections from Italy and South Germany, appear to bear close parallels to the VMS. Note that ivory working was not established before the 16th century.

Now take a look at Rudolf II's collection.

Again, please note that ivory working began after 1500.

Those are excellent comparisons, JAT. There are other "cylinders" in addition to the ones you have compared here, and some of yours above, and "my" comparative optical ones, which look quite a bit like Egyptian perfume bottles. I was unable to determine the earliest era in which these were made, though. Perhaps I'll take a stab at it again:

   

Another, and overriding point to all these good comparisons is that so far I have not seen any items which breaks what I call (somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but accurate in its veracity and value to me), "Voynich Theorem #1: Any good comparison between an object or illustration outside the Voynich Ms. with an illustration in it, will either have been in print by 1911, and/or in a place Voynich is either known to have, or reasonably could have, visited".

Your ivory jars comparison, for instance, is yet another example of this. It is clearly a very good comparison, and also "The Florence Medici grand ducal art collection was first opened and put on public display in 1828 by Grand Duke Leopold II of Lorraine"- palazzo-pitti.net

So those ivory jars were a You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(whether he happened to take it, or not, of course) from his Florence Libreria... just a bit further than the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., in the Museo Gallileo.

Rich

[JustAnotherTheory]

So those ivory jars were a You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Great observation. Can we finally take the modern forgery hypothesis more seriously?

[JustAnotherTheory]

I wil add that at this time people were experimenting with greffing plants: cutting a part of a plant and sticking onto another.

   

Note that all of this plant-cutting and combination practice is after 1500.

[JoJo_Jost]

The similarities are striking—but what you're forgetting is that these vessels were most likely not “reinvented” in terms of design at that time, but rather draw on older design elements, as is so common. Especially since you can see references to Roman, Greek, and Egyptian design elements.

[JustAnotherTheory]

The similarities are striking—but what you're forgetting is that these vessels were most likely not “reinvented” in terms of design at that time, but rather draw on older design elements, as is so common. Especially since you can see references to Roman, Greek, and Egyptian design elements.

While I agree in principle, it would be better to have a visual comparison. But I don't think there is one.

[JoJo_Jost]

I did a quick search, but these forms already existed in the early 14th century, and detailed ornamentation is usually a matter of social status.

   
The picture shows a miniature of an apothecary's shop with apothecary jars and boxes on shelves

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[JoJo_Jost]

So those ivory jars were a pleasant 18 minute walk for Voynich (whether he happened to take it, or not, of course) from his Florence Libreria

Even though I’m not a fan of modern hoax theories , and after analyzing a lot of statistics I’m actually certain that the text isn’t a hoax, I’ll admit this much: It is suspicious!

Especially since: The Baroque Medici ivory pieces were housed in the Bargello until 1924 but were then moved to the Palazzo Pitti.

But: "If, on the one hand, the feet with masks are still a reference to the goldsmith's art of the previous century, on the other hand, the eccentric shapes of the precious container and the decorative exuberance, appear to be in line with the stylistic features of Baroque art."
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