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A match for the containers? 16th-17th century ivory vases
- A match for the containers? 16th-17th century ivory vases
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RE: A match for the containers? 16th-17th century ivory vases
JoJo_Jost > 09-10-2026, 02:00 PM
(09-10-2026, 10:33 AM)eggyk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Das Datum bei Dieser Link besagt 1626, war "früheres Jahrhundert" zum 16. Jahrhundert oder 1500er Jahre Mach,?
Hahaha, and I was just about to write that you mixed up the centuries—but it turns out I did it myself
. You're right, of course—1612 is in the 17th century, so that refers to 16th-century goldsmith work.... man, oh man, oh man.
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RE: A match for the containers? 16th-17th century ivory vases
Bluetoes101 > 09-10-2026, 02:05 PM
Personally I don't think they are better examples than things found in early 15th century works.
After looking at them for quite some time, I'm currently in the mind that they are a western mind drawing fantastical "eastern" vessels for holding spices and other valuable ingredients. I'm not sure why ivory vases would fit with the context of the pages they are on.
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RE: A match for the containers? 16th-17th century ivory vases
JustAnotherTheory > 09-10-2026, 02:18 PM
I'm not sure either. That's why the apparent ressemblance of these objects to those in the VMS is very intriguiing.
Again, I'm not proposing a particular theory, just pointing out a resemblance, that to my eyes, is better than any other that we have found so far. -
RE: A match for the containers? 16th-17th century ivory vases
nablator > 09-10-2026, 02:31 PM
(09-10-2026, 10:26 AM)gerrydelasel Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.What is this container? Is it a single object or just three nesting boxes stacked on top of one another?
It's in the apothecary section, without a label or description. I imagine it could be used for making pills from powders. Mortar and pestle between them... Just a guess.
![[Image: 21-apotheke_orig.jpg]](https://www.chess-museum.com/uploads/4/8/4/6/484601/21-apotheke_orig.jpg)
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RE: A match for the containers? 16th-17th century ivory vases
JoJo_Jost > 09-10-2026, 02:49 PM
However, this design language already existed in the 15th century. Here is a real example from the 15th century in Germany: the base, resting on three feet; the wider ring at the bottom; the widened (in this case) bowl; the lid; and the spout:
Source: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
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RE: A match for the containers? 16th-17th century ivory vases
Bluetoes101 > 09-10-2026, 02:59 PM
(09-10-2026, 02:18 PM)JustAnotherTheory Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I'm not sure either. That's why the apparent ressemblance of these objects to those in the VMS is very intriguiing.
Again, I'm not proposing a particular theory, just pointing out a resemblance, that to my eyes, is better than any other that we have found so far.
As far as real object that survived they maybe.
I have a tale to weave at some point on spices.. I'll see if I can convert you
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RE: A match for the containers? 16th-17th century ivory vases
pjburkshire > 09-10-2026, 03:01 PM
Is there a mortar and pestle in the Voynich Manuscript? -
RE: A match for the containers? 16th-17th century ivory vases
JoJo_Jost > 09-10-2026, 03:22 PM
Ah, here it is—a vessel dating from the 15th century associated with a pharmacist. Source You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Quote: "A silver cup from the second half of the 15th century, which was once owned by the apothecary Seeholzen in Ingolstadt."
And right next to it is a Gothic goblet.
You can see just how richly decorated these objects could already be in the 15th century.
As I mentioned earlier, the ivory artworks are based on a stylistic language that had already been in use for centuries. The only thing new are the risky constructions. -
RE: A match for the containers? 16th-17th century ivory vases
nablator > 09-10-2026, 03:26 PM
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RE: A match for the containers? 16th-17th century ivory vases
Jacob Carolus > 09-10-2026, 03:53 PM
(09-10-2026, 10:26 AM)gerrydelasel Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.What is this container? Is it a single object or just three nesting boxes stacked on top of one another?
Spandose (Bentwood Boxes)
The physical objects on the left are historic Spandosen (singular: Spandose), known in English as bentwood boxes or chip boxes.
• The Origin Region: This exact manufacturing technique originated and dominated in Southern Germany (Bavaria and Swabia), the Tyrol, and the Erzgebirge mountain regions.
• How They Were Made: Instead of being turned on a lathe from a solid block of wood, artisans shaved thin, flexible strips of wood (usually spruce, pine, or linden), soaked or steamed them, bent them into perfect overlapping cylinders, and stitched them together using tree roots or copper tacks. The flat lids and bottoms were then fitted into the grooves.
• The Stacking Instinct: Because of how they were constructed, they were naturally made in standardized, nested sets (exactly like modern measuring cups or Tupperware). A merchant would buy a stack of five or six nested boxes to easily transport dry herbs, pills, pigments, and costly spices without taking up massive cargo space.