More about mermaid

[Rafal]

Some Voynich vibes:

   

Mermaid and animal on the left are from printed edition (section "snakes") , the animal on the right is from Cod. Med 14 (section "sea monsters").
I feel that the animal on the right is quite a good match !

Some summary:
I don't know how about you but for me it is a strong match as for stuff that we get trying to research Voynich Manuscript.
The Voynich artist was probably using some illustrated version of Das Buch von Natur by Konrad von Merenberg.
It is however not any of the 5 versions available to us now.

In Voynich Manuscript these creatures are a part of a bigger composition however. Above them we have pipes, water, nymphs and even one nymph with a cross. I don't have good opinion what it all could mean together.

But it kind of confirms the view that the Voynich artist was building his imagery from smaller "bricks" taken from various sources.

So, what now?   Does this knowledge give anything to us? Do you see some path of further research?

[Rafal]

As for now I think I won't find any more relevant, online available manuscripts.
It looks there are more illustrated versions of Das Buch der Natur but you would have to physically travel to some German town to see them and I am not ready for that 

It looks like the leader in production of these manuscript was  well known here Diebold Lauber. He was producing this stuff almost in a factory style manner, using templates for pictures and building them from parts like from Lego bricks. It made everything faster and cheaper but less original as his manuscripts are never exact copies, yet they are similar one to another.

The manuscripts which give most Voynich vibes are exactly from Lauber. I suppose the Voynich artist must have used some  version from him. It is hardly a new discovery, the links of Voynich Manuscript to Lauber were discussed many times here.

The sources say that Lauber started his workshop in 1427. Voynich Manuscript carbon dating is usually given at 1404-1438 with 68% probability range. But some observations like similarity to Taccola manuscript put it on the right side of the time period, in the 1430s or even later. So this is compatible with the  Lauber connection.

It looks like the Voynich author didn't use ancient, hundreds years old manuscripts for his referrences but totally new and freshed stuff, released just a few years later.

For me it suggests some kind of student or a friend of some student. Das Buch der Natur wasn't a book for wise men, it was a simple, introductory book for young men who still struggled with Latin so the text had to be in German.

[R. Sale]

Perhaps we have miscommunicated. In Post #6, I linked to the mermaid illustration in Harley 334, but you have yet to acknowledge its existence. Together with the Lauber illustrations, they establish how a mermaid was seen from the perspective of that time. 15th C 2nd Qtr. The mermaid is a monster, a strange creature, a half-seductive fish. They functioned in the realms of monsters and fish. They did not have Disney personalities. They were generic entities, rather than individual identities.

As Koen mentioned in Post #7, I believe it was JKP who brough the Melusine mythology to the Ninja discussion some years back. The depiction of thighs sets the VMs illustration apart from other mermaid illustrations.

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From the general mythology, follow the version that goes to Luxembourg. Bonne of Luxembourg was the mother of the Valois generation that coincides with the VMs parchment dating. The version of Melusine in the Luxembourg myth was much more mermaid-like than the Lusignan version of the dragon lady. Nevertheless, Jean, Duke of Berry. had a number of connections to the Lusignan version. While the Burgundian line commemorated Melusine as late as the Feast of the Pheasant (1454).

Melusine was neither Christian nor Classical, but a native or 'pagan' entity, that was more suppressed. If the interpretation is valid, it shows the VMs artist had a deeper historical perspective that would have been best obtained through life experience.

[Rafal]

I was not touching the subject of Melusine at all.
My only area of interest were different versions of Das Buch der Natur

Some winged mermaid appears there:


But she is not Melusine, she is described in this passage:

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Von der sirên.
The "sirena" is a type of siren, though it is not the siren we described earlier when writing about the wonders of the sea. According to a certain scholar, this serpent is found in Arabia; there are many of them in that kingdom, and they are swifter than horses. There are also certain kinds of serpents that possess wings, enabling them to fly. The venom of these serpents is so potent that a bite causes death before the victim even feels pain; thus, the person dies without suffering.

My belief is that the Voynich artist was taking inspiration from some version of Buch der Natur and not any Melusine story.
Do you think differently?

[R. Sale]

The evidence of the Lauber illustrations shows that all creatures with a female torso are either fish or serpent from the waist down. They do not have thighs. Medieval mermaids never have thighs. The VMs illustration has thighs. The VMs illustration cannot be a mermaid. She may look like a mermaid, and she does, but she cannot *be* a mermaid. Melusine of Luxembourg fills the description. The medieval mermaid does not become a creature that has thighs; Melusine changes each week. How could the VMs artist display such a mutable creature like Melusine?

Harley 334 is connected to the VMs by the 'mermaid' investigation and also by the comparison of cosmic structures from Parisian sources including BNF Fr. 565. The "mermaid plus four companions" structure of the Harley diagram is more similar to the VMs than any of the Lauber conglomerations. I see no reason to exclude multiple sources of inspiration. However, the ultimate identification in the VMs is something more than a generic mermaid.

[Rafal]

They do not have thighs. Medieval mermaids never have thighs. The VMs illustration has thighs. The VMs illustration cannot be a mermaid.

I absolutely agree. VM illustration is not a mermaid. It is a woman swallowed by a fish. The fish has mouth and even eyes:


Which makes Melusine also not a good match. That's how Harley 334 looks like. No legs, no eyes, no crack in the middle
   

My belief is that Voynich artist used a picture from Buch der Natur as a referrence but changed it. The original picture had a mermaid but he changed her into a woman being swallowed by a fish. But he kept some of other monsters which strangely match Lauber imagery.

I am not sure what he wanted to achieve although I have some vague theory which may get more refined at some moment.

Also like many people I believe that he was using various inspiratons but transforming them. For example he took a normal bridge from Taccola and changed into into a stream of water or some rainbow:
   

If this doesn't convince you, then well... okay 

[DG97EEB]

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This is a lovely Manuscript.. shame so much is missing from it..

[Linda]

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This is a lovely Manuscript.. shame so much is missing from it..

Aw i was hoping it was the Anaximander story but it is just about someone born in Pisces and his attributes. Gemini calls it a Siren or Melusine, I do not think so.

[Koen G]

I'm pretty sure it's based on a Jonah image. One of his standard poses when emerging from the fish is with his hands like this, to show that his dedication to God saved him.

[nablator]

I'm pretty sure it's based on a Jonah image. One of his standard poses when emerging from the fish is with his hands like this, to show that his dedication to God saved him.

Yes, it's been discussed before:
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The text seems related to Pseudo-Ptolemy, Liber de nativitatibus hominum, but different: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.