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More about mermaid
- More about mermaid
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RE: More about mermaid
Dana Scott > 22-09-2026, 01:01 AM
(22-09-2026, 12:01 AM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The devil is in the details. Look, there he goes. Mermaids do not have thighs. The comparison in Post #1 certainly hints at 'sexual viability', which is unusual in itself for mermaids, but clearly, on the other hand, "there don't be no daylight shining through." Medieval mermaids stay as mermaids; AFAIK they don't change to something else. Melusine performed her metamorphosis once a week.
Bonne of Luxembourg was the mother of the Valois lines relevant to the VMs dates. It's not like this information wasn't well known in that era. It's more like certain relevant details have been obscured by the dust devils of history.
Perhaps these "creatures" in the VMS symbolize alchemical processes?
Regards,
Dana Scott -
RE: More about mermaid
JustAnotherTheory > 22-09-2026, 05:25 AM
Good find. Notice the dots on the animal's body:
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RE: More about mermaid
Rafal > 22-09-2026, 02:20 PM
Quote:Good find. Notice the dots on the animal's body:
Nice! The animal is a bit different but it is long, short-legged, dotted and facing right.
Don't forget that my image couldn't be the direct inspiration for Voynich as it's 50 years younger. But it could be itself inspired by some older version of Buch von Natur (now lost) which could be seen by Voynich artist. -
RE: More about mermaid
DG97EEB > 23-09-2026, 05:15 AM
(21-09-2026, 10:05 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I had replied that I remembered this being discussed before, but I was unable to find it, and then I started doubting myself and I deleted the post. But I think this is what I may have remembered, JKP referencing one of these MSS in the same context: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
He also seems to have blogged about it here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I remember back in the day, looking through all possible Buch der Natur MSS for similar plates, with the mermaids and these four, but I found nothing. Only worse ones that are barely parallels, like mermaids with a bunch of fish. I went through everything on Handschriftencensus. Maybe there's more now, so many years later?
Buch Der Natur is probably relevant You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I think in that same post you said you couldn't find the Stuttgart book, which is now digitised You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. -
RE: More about mermaid
Rafal > 23-09-2026, 10:29 AM
Nice discovery with that Stuttgart manuscript! You had luck, I have checked a lot of versions of Buch das Natur and they were either text only or not available online.
It has its version of "sea monsters pond" but it's more "fishy", not really similar to Voynich and the mermaid is missing there. I believe however that the monster in the bottom right corner may be some very mutated mermaid:
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RE: More about mermaid
Rafal > 23-09-2026, 10:41 AM
Some update.
I was browsing Buch der Natur copies but couldn't find the exact match to Voynich.
There are many printed versions but they are almost the same and all seem to be plagiarised from the first printed version so don't give anything more to us:
The first printed version comes from some Johann Bämler from Augsburg.
I found some older illustrated manuscripts with "sea monsters" scene and they are a little bit similar to each other but not similar to Voynich. They have that two-tailed, "Starbucks" mermaid:
Interestingly, the printed versions also has two-tailed mermaid on another picture so possibly Bämler was using more than just one reference for his work:
I also found a Buch der Natur manuscript which doesn't have collective sea monster scene, just individual monsters, including "normal" mermaid:
I will search some more but can't promise a more "direct hit". -
RE: More about mermaid
Koen G > 23-09-2026, 12:00 PM
This is giving me flashbacks to the "manuscript browsing burnout" I got from doing these kinds of searches before. (I wonder if anyone recognizes the feeling). But there are more books available now online, so it is great that you are doing a new check.
These plates are combinations of various creatures discussed in the bestiary. It would be interesting to track which entries they correspond to, so we can match different iterations of the same creature. -
RE: More about mermaid
DG97EEB > 23-09-2026, 12:25 PM
This morning at 5am, I actually thought to myself "what did I do wrong in life to find myself browsing through an 800 page German Manuscript rather than sleeping""... Eat|Sleep|Voynich repeat...
Btw, Rafal, I think we should know why you have Queen Elizabeth as a mermaid... -
RE: More about mermaid
Rafal > 24-09-2026, 08:49 PM
Research update. Warning: big post.
I was comparing these pictures from different versions of Das Buch der Natur and some stuff was confusing to me. So I decided to do it in a more methodical way. It soon turn our that you need to check not one section of the book (On sea monsters ) but ... four.
Here are sections potentially relevant:
MERWUNDERN: sea wonders, sea monsters
VISCHEN: fish
SLANGEN: snakes
WÜRMEN: worms
Of course you shouldn't expect modern scientific precision from it. So "worms" may be earthworms, insects, snails, frogs or little snakes. And, as you may guess, there is a big mix of real and fantasy creatures.
It turned out for me very soon that the artists often didn't understand what they were drawing. In some cases it seems that they didn't even read the text but just were copying some picture from another manuscript and changing details as they liked.
I made a comparison of five manuscripts:
Different type of mermaids actually appear 3 times among creatures with different names. Twice in sea monsters and once in snakes. I translated their descriptions:
1) Von den merweiben. (Sea woman)
Sirens possess a wondrously melodious voice, as Aristotle states. In German, they may be called "sea-women," for from the head down to
the navel they have the form of a woman—of noble stature yet with a fearsome countenance. They also have very long, coarse hair upon
their heads, much like the hair of a horse. They frequently appear at sea with their little ones, whom they carry in their arms just
as human women do, for they possess large breasts with which they nurse their young. The lower part of the creature resembles that
of an eagle—according to Adelinus—featuring very sharp talons on its feet with which it tears whatever it seizes; at the very end,
it has a tail covered in scales like a fish, with which it swims through the waters. It sings with extraordinary sweetness;
yet its voice is not articulated like that of a human, but is rather a warbling or chirping sound, such as birds possess.
When sailors hear this voice, they often fall asleep, overcome by the sweetness of the song, and are then torn apart by the sea-women.
For this reason, sailors plug their ears so as not to hear the singing; indeed, whenever they catch sight of a siren or sea-woman,
they are seized with great fear. By this creature, I understand those unvirtuous women who have forsaken womanly propriety and who lure
many a man into wickedness.
2) Von der merjuncfrawen. (Sea virgin / Scylla)
Scylla may be called a mermaid—a marvel of the sea that is hostile to sailors and all mankind, yet delights in and craves human blood and flesh.
The creature has a head and bosom just like a maiden’s, a wide, wrinkled mouth—like a siren’s—with very sharp teeth, and a bestial body with
a tail like a dolphin’s. The Book of Things states that these creatures are extraordinarily strong and not easily overcome in the water,
though on land they are not as powerful and are virtually incapable of fighting. Adelinus says that these creatures can sing quite beautifully
and have an intense craving for flesh; he also notes that these sea-marvels dwell in the sea separating the lands of Italy and Sicily.
By this creature, I understand those deceitful maidens who walk about with the headbands of virgins, calling themselves virgins and claiming
to have fasted strictly, yet secretly eat meat on Fridays—a thing they crave intensely.
3 Von der sirên (siren)
The "sirena" is a type of siren, though it is not the siren we described earlier when writing about the wonders of the sea. According to a certain scholar,
this serpent is found in Arabia; there are many of them in that kingdom, and they are swifter than horses. There are also certain kinds of serpents
that possess wings, enabling them to fly. The venom of these serpents is so potent that a bite causes death before the victim even feels pain;
thus, the person dies without suffering.
I will now describe the manuscripts and pictures in my next post -
RE: More about mermaid
Rafal > 24-09-2026, 09:14 PM
1) Cod. Pal. Germ. 300
The artist probably makes a mistake and draws "sea wonders" picture twice, placing the second version into "fish" sections. He draws "snakes" as some giant hydras and "worms" basically as small snakes
Pictures give some Voynich vibes.
Mermaids: one-tailed in "sea wonders", one-tailed in "fish" by mistake.
2) Cod. Pal. Germ. 311
Beside mermaid, the artist draws some mermen in "sea wonders" section. Snakes section is similar to "worms" section from Cod. Pal. Germ. 300.
Pictures don't give Voynich vibes.
Mermaids: two-tailed in "sea wonders"
3) Cod. Med. 14
The artist makes a big mistake and draws "sea wonders" on a ... grass. He probably was coping from a manuscript like 1) where it is easy not to notice that they are in water. Possibly as a result he removes mermaid totally from the picture as mermaid on the grass didn't fit him. He draws some creature vaguely similar to a mermaid in "fish" section
Pictures give some Voynich vibes.
Mermaids: none
4) Ms Carm 1 Ausst. 47
The artist draws two mermaids, one-tailed and two tailed in "sea wonders" section just like it is in the text. The text however doesn't speak about the number of tails, it is artist's invention to make them somehow different. He also draws a "snake mermaid" in snakes section just like in the text
Pictures don't give Voynich vibes.
Mermaids: two-tailed in "sea wonders", one-tailed in "sea wonders", snake mermaid in "snakes"
5) Printed edition
"Sea wonders" are like in 3) outside water but both mermaids are included. Snake mermaid in "snakes" is also included. She doesn't look like a snake but like a fish mermaid but she has wings just like it is in the text. Generally "snakes" section has a lot of creatures that aren't snakes at all
Pictures give some Voynich vibes.
Mermaids: two-tailed in "sea wonders", one-tailed and winged in "sea wonders", winged in "snakes"
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My general impression is that the artists copied stuff one from another but often made mistakes as they didn't understand what they were drawing. They also moved creatures from one section to another if they liked. Sometimes they followed the text, sometimes they went totally wild