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More about mermaid
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More about mermaid
Rafal > 5 hours ago
Following some observations from the thread:
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In that thread we found in Augsburg, Cod. II.1.2° 109 a nice mermaid really fitting the strange "woman eaten by a fish" in Voynich Manuscript
But what about the other strange creatures in f79v?
That Augsburg manuscript convinced me that you can find some Voynich related stuff in bestiaries and I started browsing some German ones. I think I have something, sorry if it was already discussed
Heidelberg, Cod. Pal. Germ. 300
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Have a look. A pool with a mermaid and a lot of monsters, just like in the Voynich Manuscript. And these monsters really give some Voynich vibes when compared to Voynich creatures, at least for me.
The section in Cod. Pal. Germ. 300 is called "Von dem merwundern" - "About sea wonders"
I believe such a scene may be the inspiration for You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. bottom.
Now a little twist. Probably neither Cod. II.1.2° 109 nor Cod. Pal. Germ. 300 were direct inspirations for Voynich. The first one doesn't have "sea wonders" picture and the second one is too different.
So I would propose an existence of some unknown German bestiary, probably no longer existing nowadays. Let's call it Bestiary X.
Bestiary X would have a "sea wonders" picture but more in a Voynich style and with a mermaid in Cod. II.1.2° 109 style.
I asked Gemini AI to try to imagine the possible illustration.
Here is the result, compared to Voynich
How do you think? Do you find "sea wonders" connection plausible? -
RE: More about mermaid
ololololo > 5 hours ago
Well, quite. One of the animals even matches in color!
Interestingly, the author still tried to embellish such a careless manuscript (means VMS) as best he could... -
RE: More about mermaid
JoJo_Jost > 4 hours ago
@ Rafal A good, reasonably plausible find... I like it. -
RE: More about mermaid
DG97EEB > 3 hours ago
Deleted -
RE: More about mermaid
Rafal > 2 hours ago
Some more info:
My pictures come from a book called Das Buch der Natur by some Konrad von Megenberg
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You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (in German)
The book describes plants, jewels and various animals (real and fantastical) and is quite similar to the better known Physiologus. Several copies exist, both illustrated and not.
Like Physiologus, it first describes an animal and then makes some analogy to humans, especially human morality.
An example of one of fictional sea monsters (translation by Gemini), see also You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
"Abides is a sea monster, which in German may be called an auzgängel [one that goes out / amphibious creature], because, as Aristotle says, the beast is a marine animal that is first a water creature, raised in salty water; thereafter it changes its nature, transforms its shape entirely, leaves the water, and becomes a land animal, feeding henceforth upon dry land. Therefore it also changes its name and is called in Latin astois, which in German may be called a peiständel [one that stands near us], because it stays with us on land. Truly, it is indeed a wonder that in this animal both its nature, its natural habits, and its name are changed. By this beast, I understand every young person who lives virtuously in youth under disciplined guidance... but when grown, turns all virtue into vice and becomes a devil."
I checked other versions and some have a variant this "sea monsters" picture too, but they don't give so much Voynich vibes and seem more distant than the picture I included above. I will share them here later anyway. -
RE: More about mermaid
R. Sale > 2 hours ago
Another interesting comparison is found in Harley 334.
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The similarity is not based on appearance as much as it was based on structure: mermaid PLUS four companions.
Harley 334 also contains cosmic diagrams with structures similar to that from BNF Fr. 565 which has been shown to be similar in structure (not appearance) to the cosmic diagram in the VMs.
Both Harley [2nd Qtr. 15th] and BNF [c. 1410] were produced in Paris during the VMs era.
The Lauber and de Metz texts show that mermaids were seen as generic creatures, female from the waist up, fish from the waist down, not as particular individuals. The VMs illustration, however, is not a mermaid because mermaids do not have thighs. The VMs artist has borrowed the structure of the Harley illustration and substituted mythical, mermaid-like Melusine of Luxembourg, purported ancestress of the Valois lines that were historically significant during that time. -
RE: More about mermaid
Koen G > 2 hours ago
I had replied that I remembered this being discussed before, but I was unable to find it, and then I started doubting myself and I deleted the post. But I think this is what I may have remembered, JKP referencing one of these MSS in the same context: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
He also seems to have blogged about it here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I remember back in the day, looking through all possible Buch der Natur MSS for similar plates, with the mermaids and these four, but I found nothing. Only worse ones that are barely parallels, like mermaids with a bunch of fish. I went through everything on Handschriftencensus. Maybe there's more now, so many years later?
Buch Der Natur is probably relevant You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. -
RE: More about mermaid
Rafal > 1 hour ago
The "best" another picture of this scene I have is this:
It's late, from a printed version around 1480.
But we have some Voynich schema here - mermaid with a single tail (and well, some wings) on the left and monsters on the right. -
RE: More about mermaid
Koen G > 1 hour ago
Well found. Some of the monsters even look like they're the same types! -
RE: More about mermaid
R. Sale > 12 minutes ago
The devil is in the details. Look, there he goes. Mermaids do not have thighs. The comparison in Post #1 certainly hints at 'sexual viability', which is unusual in itself for mermaids, but clearly, on the other hand, "there don't be no daylight shining through." Medieval mermaids stay as mermaids; AFAIK they don't change to something else. Melusine performed her metamorphosis once a week.
Bonne of Luxembourg was the mother of the Valois lines relevant to the VMs dates. It's not like this information wasn't well known in that era. It's more like certain relevant details have been obscured by the dust devils of history.