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New analysis of f116v, Central Bavarian dialect
- New analysis of f116v, Central Bavarian dialect
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RE: New analysis of f116v, Central Bavarian dialect
monisusa > 28-06-2026, 07:08 PM
(28-06-2026, 01:32 PM)JoJo_Jost Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.There is simply no historical evidence that a “c” is an abbreviation for the word “Zeh.” If you know of any, you'll have to provide evidence for it here.
I also haven't found any evidence that the word “Zeh” was ever written with a “c,” i.e., “ceh.” Moreover, a single “c” would have been interpreted at the time as a Latin abbreviation.
While “c” (tse) sounds similar to “zeh,” “ceh” would be extremely atypical.
Do you have at least one instance where “Zeh” was written as “ceh”???
Hello, I think it is not always effective to search for "attestations". Late medieval spelling was highly individual and irregular, particularly if the author was writing in a language foreign to him.
It was ONE scribe who decided to spell ONE word in his own special way. It is not representative of the whole period nor of all regions, scribes or scriptoria.
The ingredients of the ointments are typical for painful joint inflammation which could affect a toe, a gout toe (ein Gichtzeh).
Which logical transcription for "c" would you suggest for these parts where the "Zeh" appears? And does it also make sense with the whole context or is it just a single
word without any connection to the content? That's what we should ask ourselves.
Kind regards, Monika -
RE: New analysis of f116v, Central Bavarian dialect
JoJo_Jost > 28-06-2026, 09:28 PM
Yes, of course you can justify anything that way—but no, it would be a highly unusual abbreviation and spelling.
And what you're suggesting there is a circular argument: it has to be “Zeh” because it has to be “Zeh”... -
RE: New analysis of f116v, Central Bavarian dialect
Aga Tentakulus > 28-06-2026, 10:37 PM
(28-06-2026, 10:59 AM)monisusa Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Beleidigungen sind einfach, wenn man nichts Konkretes beitragen kann. Ich habe dies dem Administrator gemeldet. Viele Grüße Monika
Vielleicht mache ich es ja so wie Du. Ich zerhacke alles.
Latte steht auf jeder Milchpackung. Hag ist koffeinfreier Kaffee. Zusammen Milchkaffee.
Was hast Du den gemeldet?
Das Du keinen Kaffee magst oder das Du nicht deutsch kannst.
ohhh, mein Fehler. Vielleicht hätte ich Dir noch richtig Zucker geben sollen, am besten Zehn Stück.
Maybe I'll do it the way you do. I'll chop everything up.
“Latte” is written on every milk carton. “Hag” is decaf coffee. Together, they make a latte.
What did you say, anyway?
That you don't like coffee, or that you don't speak German?
Ohhh, my mistake. Maybe I should have given you some real sugar—ten cubes, preferably. -
RE: New analysis of f116v, Central Bavarian dialect
Aga Tentakulus > 28-06-2026, 10:52 PM
Regarding “anchiton,” I think it's a name.
Why? In many recipes, descriptions, and curses, certain people are mentioned who said certain things.
For example: Master Ypperron. I have no idea who that’s supposed to be; even the internet couldn’t help.
That’s why I think it’s a name. Probably Greek.
Other names that also appear, such as Hippocrates and others. But those are well-known.
For this reason, I think it’s a name.
Translated with DeepL.com (free version) -
RE: New analysis of f116v, Central Bavarian dialect
R. Sale > 29-06-2026, 12:20 AM
Possibly ..... Master Hyperion, Greek Titan - god of heavenly light and watchfulness, replaced by Apollo - so it says. -
RE: New analysis of f116v, Central Bavarian dialect
nablator > 29-06-2026, 08:03 AM
(28-06-2026, 10:52 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hippocrates
That's the one. Ypocras. It's also a recipe of wine with sugar and cinnamon etc.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. -
RE: New analysis of f116v, Central Bavarian dialect
Koen G > 29-06-2026, 09:05 AM
I just don't think it's quite the same. Post "Ypporas" here and people can immediately solve it for you. That's in part because we get some context: "Es spricht der maister ypocras". Even if we didn't know who this refers to, we would still understand the gist of the sentence. We have enough context to know that this is some source author's name.
With f116v, the ratio of clear context vs unclear words is the reverse. You get some tentative anchors like "poxleber" (maybe), "maria" (maybe) and "so nim", but the rest is a guessing game. -
RE: New analysis of f116v, Central Bavarian dialect
Aga Tentakulus > 29-06-2026, 09:58 AM
That’s not the only reason I think it’s a good name.
It’s a word that can’t be found in any of the various dictionaries—all the others can. And it has multiple meanings.
Names have a way of making it so that no one really knows what they’re derived from.
If I were to tell a story based on all this, I’d explain it as follows.
Someone once wrote that curses were written on little slips of paper and then burned.
In the text, there’s a candle (“cere”), we have “burn” (“vbren/v’brenn”), and we have words ending in “x” (curse).
And we have a warning.
Now everyone can make their own sense of it. -
RE: New analysis of f116v, Central Bavarian dialect
Aga Tentakulus > 30-06-2026, 10:23 AM
You could interpret it that way, too.
A jug instead of a bowl. This was used in the other curse.
Grammatically speaking, everything is fine.
The structure of the curse is also standard.
The concept seems clear.
There is a harmony to be found between all of this.
PS: Whilst the aid in the VM appears to be a candle, in the curse it is chalk and water. -
RE: New analysis of f116v, Central Bavarian dialect
Koen G > 30-06-2026, 10:26 AM
Look where the crosses are, and where they are not.