The Thing as compared to the Other Thing

[CaryR]

The example of the Wise Virgins who hold their oil lamps up, in contrast to the Foolish Virgins who hold their lamps down, reminds me of something else I found- "Cautes and Cautopates" are a pair of torch-bearers found in Mithraic icons. One always holds a torch pointing upwards, and the other holds a torch pointing down. They're usually found alongside the god Mithras slaying a bull and other associated imagery called the Tauroctony. 

This is completely unrelated to the wise/foolish virgins imagery in context and meaning, but it shares the motif of "pairs of figures with one torch held up and the other held down." 

       

[davidjackson]

Interesting,
Didn't know about them.
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You'll note that they are early representations of opposites, one being light and the other darkness.

[MarcoP]

In You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. linked by Cary in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., the upward/downward torches appear in an allegory of Love (Amor, left) and an allegory of Human Life (right). See You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. #241. The downward torch specifically represents the shortness of human life and points to the hellmouth.

   

It seems that, in classical times, Love and Death (Eros and Thanatos) were both represented as winged figures with an upward and downward torch respectively.

For what is worth, I doubt the motif is related with the VMS, but I find it interesting by itself.

[Koen G]

Right, the motifs are interesting by their own, even if they may not explain anything about the VM. 

What do you find the best explanation for the "Things", Marco?

[MarcoP]

Right, the motifs are interesting by their own, even if they may not explain anything about the VM. 

What do you find the best explanation for the "Things", Marco?

Hi Koen,
back in 2015, I posted on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. an idea similar to Searcher's comment You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..

   

While I still see some similarity with poppy pods, I am now much less sure that the similarity is significant.
In my opinion, a good interpretation of this or any other detail should be part of an interpretation of the whole of Q13. This has been rarely attempted and all attempts are somehow weak. For instance, in my 2015 comment I mentioned You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. Their article is certainly interesting, but it shows no medieval images that could support their ideas: this seriously undermines their conclusions.

To my knowledge, in recent years the only addition to the scholarly study of Q13 has been Rampling's "Alchemical Traditions" essay in the 2016 Yale facsimile. She clearly summarizes the situation (p.46):

Unlike the herbal and astronomical diagrams, [the illustrations in the so-called biological or balneological section] have no obvious parallel among other genres of late medieval imagery. [...] in the absence of either accompanying legible text or a clear parallel in medieval art, one guess is merely as good as another.

We know that, though some herbals provide decent parallels for Voynich plants, they are not good enough to identify a single plant with any certainty. Similarly, the zodiac in the astrological pages is recognizable, but this is more or less all we are certain about. Q13 is even worse.

Sadly, since "one guess is as good as another", we are not in a position to pick a single "best" idea. Our hopes are either to decipher Voynichese (and make the text legible) or to miraculously find somewhere an illustration cycle that closely parallels Q13.

[proto57]

I'm not sure if this has been suggested, but I think this could be an enema, or "clyster" bag. The representation of it held up, then close to "down there" I think is a clue to this. And it looks like those... if you look up antique clyster bag, especially the antique ones made of animal bladders.

Similarly, also held to that area, is this image: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

It does I think fit within the general sense that these pages may be therapeutically, and/or medicinally, and/or anatomically based or inspired, and the enema has historically been seen as both a cure for various ailments, and also a health and therapeutic practice. "Cleansing" colonics go back a long way. So for the image I link to Jason Davies Voyager above, at the top of f80r, I had actually made a CAD image of it, and forgot to include it on my recent 3D CAD blog post.



The positioning and look of that, let alone the context of the baths and such, reminds me of the business end of a clyster setup.




Rich.

[-JKP-]

Four years ago, I posted a clyster from a medieval manuscript on another thread about "things". Here's the pic (it even has a row of dots along one side):

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[Koen G]

Time sure flies, 2016... and it feels like only yesterday since we discussed the enema.

[RobGea]

It's one of those things that's hard to forget 

[proto57]

Four years ago, I posted a clyster from a medieval manuscript on another thread about "things". Here's the pic (it even has a row of dots along one side):

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Well JKP, I'd  say that is a very good candidate. I was looking for a good representation of a medieval  clyster bag, wondering if there was one close to the "thing", and you found one some time ago.

Rich.