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Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r
- Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r
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RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r
-JKP- > 30-12-2016, 02:27 PM
(30-12-2016, 06:41 AM)stellar Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Jkp and Coon,
Go ahead an dispute as much as you can about my findings; yet I'm coming from a logical premise where numbers are associated to words from the VMS imagery.
You may think you come from a logical premise, but can you answer this question?
If this is gematria, why did the VMS author add hundreds of extra hours of work by carefully ordering the position of the glyphs?
In gematria, the word ABCD has the same numeric sum as the word DCBA or ADCB—they all add up to the same thing using your system. And yet the VMS scribes took great pains to put certain glyphs at the beginning of Vords, certain glyphs at the end, and certain glyphs at the beginnings and ends of lines.
This careful arrangement is completely unnecessary, and GREATLY increases the amount of work involved in writing the text.
If it's gematria, glyph order doesn't matter. So why would they greatly complicate the laying down of the text? It doesn't hide the numeric value of the words, so it's not another level of encryption. It doesn't help in reading them back either, since one still has to go through the grueling process of looking up all the words that match the number (not the letter) and then trying to guess which one was intended.
It makes no sense to arrange the glyph order as happens in the VMS if it's gematria. -
RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r
stellar > 30-12-2016, 02:34 PM
(30-12-2016, 02:27 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(30-12-2016, 06:41 AM)stellar Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Jkp and Coon,
Go ahead an dispute as much as you can about my findings; yet I'm coming from a logical premise where numbers are associated to words from the VMS imagery.
You may think you come from a logical premise, but can you answer this question?
If this is gematria, why did the VMS author add hundreds of extra hours of work by carefully ordering the position of the glyphs?
In gematria, the word ABCD has the same numeric sum as the word DCBA or ADCB—they all add up to the same thing using your system. And yet the VMS scribes took great pains to put certain glyphs at the beginning of Vords, certain glyphs at the end, and certain glyphs at the beginnings and ends of lines.
This careful arrangement is completely unnecessary, and GREATLY increases the amount of work involved in writing the text.
If it's gematria, glyph order doesn't matter. So why would they greatly complicate the laying down of the text? It doesn't hide the numeric value of the words, so it's not another level of encryption. It doesn't help in reading them back either, since one still has to go through the grueling process of looking up all the words that match the number (not the letter) and then trying to guess which one was intended.
It makes no sense to arrange the glyph order as happens in the VMS if it's gematria.
JKP,
Hold on a bit and thanks for your response. I'm noticing something as a secret language a sort of code beneath the code so to speak. The linguists would have to check it out. But the vords with all consonants is troubling to me but they make sounds too. What I'm suggesting is that not only did the Author mix the letters which represent numbers as words to known languages but he made his own private incantation language.
Also the gallows characters and bench gallows have subject meaning I believe. Not all the time! -
RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r
bunny > 30-12-2016, 09:29 PM
(30-12-2016, 02:57 AM)ThomasCoon Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(25-12-2016, 09:50 AM)bunny Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If you could come up with JFK or the Moon landing as you say I would be really interested in that being a comparative result of the method. I look forward to such results as null hypothesis tests.
Hi Bunny- I actually did come up with that. The post in full is You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., but below is an excerpt. It was 25 consecutive words, which is longer than many of Stellar's translations, and it used the same paragraph he claimed to have decoded:
(03-12-2016, 05:08 AM)ThomasCoon Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.That is fair Stellar. But I can make a long story also.
I claim that the red blotch on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is an eagle. I can make a "decryption" about the moon landing ("The Eagle has landed"), and JFK's speech which got the US to fund NASA and led to the July 1969 landing. Our win in the space-race caused other nations to doubt communist superiority, and the Voynich scribe (who must have been a prophet like Nostradamus) knew all that, because the Gematria method clearly says:
1) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 2) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 3) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 4) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 5) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 6) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 7) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. [lunar contact] 8) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 9) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 10) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
11) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., 12) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 13) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 14) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 15) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 16) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 17) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 18) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
19) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 20) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 21) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 22) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 23) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 24) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 25) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (the name of the Apollo 11 lunar module)
You clearly show that anything can be made when working with gematria and just using word number equivalents. You probably also realise you managed to randomly make an approximation of the conspiracy theories of state controlled funding for fake Moon landings, spherical earth and keeping it all under the radar by bumping off of those about to tell on the NWO. You couldn't make it up if you tried....
Bunny -
RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r
bunny > 30-12-2016, 09:46 PM
(30-12-2016, 09:29 PM)bunny Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[quote pid='10372' dateline='1483063075']
[quote pid='9509' dateline='1480738099']
1) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 2) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 3) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 4) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 5) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 6) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 7) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. [lunar contact] 8) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 9) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 10) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
11) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., 12) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 13) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 14) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 15) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 16) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 17) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 18) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
19) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 20) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 21) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 22) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 23) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 24) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 25) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (the name of the Apollo 11 lunar module)
[/quote]
You clearly show that anything can be made when working with gematria and just using word number equivalents. You probably also realise you managed to randomly make an approximation of the conspiracy theories of state controlled funding for fake Moon landings, spherical earth and keeping it all under the radar by bumping off of those about to tell on the NWO. You couldn't make it up if you tried....
Bunny
[/quote]
Also from your word choices - Suggests cold war instigated, faked at the top to keep promise made at all costs keep US nation victor in cold war. No idea if your word could be proven correct or not but they are not nonsensical for a made up demonstration.
Bunny -
RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r
ThomasCoon > 31-12-2016, 12:08 AM
stellar Wrote:Jkp and Coon,
Go ahead an dispute as much as you can about my findings; yet I'm coming from a logical premise where numbers are associated to words from the VMS imagery. The letters that are substituted have weight as any cipher, although the Author would have had a great memory or he could read his own script. I don't know how the Author reconciled his understanding of his own cipher to be honest. Maybe he just wished to put all his findings into something that he thought would never be discovered.
I think JKP pointed out something important: there are many features of the text that don't seem to be explained by the gematria hypothesis alone, such as the very rigid order of letters within words or lines. Any theory that attempts to explain the VMS will need to account for this feature of the text, and all the others: the low entropy, the scarcity of 2- or 3-vord phrases, etc. Why don't you start with those things as a launching point?
Also as an aside, I hope you don't think we disagree with you just for the sake of disagreeing. I apologize if that seems the case. -
RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r
ThomasCoon > 31-12-2016, 12:17 AM
(30-12-2016, 09:46 PM)bunny Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.No idea if your word could be proven correct or not but they are not nonsensical for a made up demonstration.
Bunny
They were, though. While going through the 200 choices for each vord, I could've spun the narrative in many directions. Not only true narratives can be created, but fake stories just as easily. This is why there is a problem with this method.
Also, Bunny, I believe you said each paragraph would still have a common thread, regardless of what different "translations" emerged from it. Well, I made a Cold-War story out of the text that stellar translated as the Garden of Eden story. I don't see the commonality but perhaps you can explain. -
RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r
bunny > 31-12-2016, 06:15 PM
(31-12-2016, 12:17 AM)ThomasCoon Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(30-12-2016, 09:46 PM)bunny Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.No idea if your word could be proven correct or not but they are not nonsensical for a made up demonstration.
Bunny
They were, though. While going through the 200 choices for each vord, I could've spun the narrative in many directions. Not only true narratives can be created, but fake stories just as easily. This is why there is a problem with this method.
Also, Bunny, I believe you said each paragraph would still have a common thread, regardless of what different "translations" emerged from it. Well, I made a Cold-War story out of the text that stellar translated as the Garden of Eden story. I don't see the commonality but perhaps you can explain.
The gematria approach has far more possible combinations than any other I have seen mostly consisting of1:1 glyph:letter with anagramming or few additional letters, giving a pool for each word often 5-20 or1 if a longer word. I am interested in the presented results rather than the method in this case. Random word sentences such as eg. red offside water, can be disregarded so one would not be looking at 200+ words anymore than 200 random bits from various jigsaws fit together. Stellar (and you) have eventually after a few random examples "spun a narrative", in your own words. I am interested in whether out of this seemingly unlimited word choice sense and particularly fact can be pulled out. I guess you pulled out a clod war JFK story based on what you know ie. the past, but if JFK, NASA or July did not add up to one of the values what would you have substituted them with to make the narrative? Was the choice (though out of many) there because it is recorded in the code?
There are books which claim to record the future such as Nostradamus and Revelation, and they claim to record what has already been decided prior to the events, 1,000's years in some cases. The randomness of method may be something I/we don't understand, but if someone can pull factual information as yet unconfirmed, or future events that become confirmed, then despite the method it is not so different. And yes, history, the present and future is vast so if you could with the "more than stars in the universe" I think it was someone said of word combinations, were able to factually construct a vast array of events from all eras, some of as yet not commonly known or confirmed, or happened, then that would be an interesting outcome to see. I am not saying this is how it was meant to be read, or that it is the meant solution to reading it, there have been a number of methods that seem to have "crowbarred" results out that are interesting and of a single thread.
Bunny -
RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r
bunny > 31-12-2016, 06:31 PM
(28-12-2016, 08:42 AM)stellar Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
![[Image: pipesstars.jpg?w=840]](https://voynichnumerology.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/pipesstars.jpg?w=840)
Hi Stellar,
the sighting tubes are an interesting interpretation of the spikes on f69v. They have been around since very early times for making viewing clearer reducing light dispersal and also if left in situ could confirm movement. There is the odd fake manuscript image in circulation, but does not detract from its factual usage. They are hollow and do not have lenses so no better than keen eyesight, though given the ancient history of optics one could not be sure that optics were not at any point added earlier than acknowledged. The above image shoes 12 spikes from the star which may refer to its course over the year being recorded. The Voynich image has 14 long and 14 short spikes? some other time frame or maybe a simple lunar month.
Another observation is that the 3x repeated word etcer (with gematria 51=Mars) also fits an anagram of Electra (Pleiades), specified as anagramming+ missing letters, which gives gematria of 64 - no idea what else that number may fit. The Pleiades are often considered in the astronomy folios.
Bunny -
RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r
-JKP- > 31-12-2016, 07:13 PM
(31-12-2016, 06:15 PM)bunny Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
I am interested in the presented results rather than the method in this case. Random word sentences such as eg. red offside water, can be disregarded so one would not be looking at 200+ words anymore than 200 random bits from various jigsaws fit together.
...
Bunny
So you're saying in the post after this one (and in previous posts) that it's okay to anagram letters/glyphs but then implying that it's not okay to anagram words—that they can be considered "random word sentences" and "be disregarded" rather than shuffling them so they make sense the same way you shuffle the letters?
How do you justify this distinction? -
RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r
bunny > 31-12-2016, 08:39 PM
(31-12-2016, 07:13 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(31-12-2016, 06:15 PM)bunny Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.So you're saying in the post after this one (and in previous posts) that it's okay to anagram letters/glyphs but then implying that it's not okay to anagram words—that they can be considered "random word sentences" and "be disregarded" rather than shuffling them so they make sense the same way you shuffle the letters?
How do you justify this distinction?
Shuffling words - as in sentence order is not quite the same as random word selection, I don't see issue with order rewording in modern language, though I wouldn't personally change the VM word order. I obviously assume that the words are not selected randomly, sometimes regarding known events, sometimes unknown events. I can't speak for how others may view it, logically it is not a sensible approach, but it may yield results. If you assume the words may only be randomly selected without other than coincidental meaning then that's the end of the line of this path.
Bunny
(31-12-2016, 08:39 PM)bunny Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(31-12-2016, 07:13 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(31-12-2016, 06:15 PM)bunny Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.So you're saying in the post after this one (and in previous posts) that it's okay to anagram letters/glyphs but then implying that it's not okay to anagram words—that they can be considered "random word sentences" and "be disregarded" rather than shuffling them so they make sense the same way you shuffle the letters?
How do you justify this distinction?
Shuffling words - as in sentence order is not quite the same as random word selection, I don't see issue with order rewording in modern language, though I wouldn't personally change the VM word order. I obviously assume that the words are not selected randomly, sometimes regarding known events, sometimes unknown events. I can't speak for how others may view it, logically it is not a sensible approach, but it may yield results. If you assume the words may only be randomly selected without other than coincidental meaning then that's the end of the line of this path.
Bunny
P.S. If you do rearrange a longish sentence of completely random words, eg, get a computer to randomly generate which number word to chose from the list and you can rearrange to make something I would be very interested to see the result.