• Options
• Login
• Desktop Style

Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r

• Index

  • The Voynich Ninja
  • Voynich Research
  • Analysis of the text
  • Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r
• Thread Closed
• Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r

• RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r

  stellar > 25-12-2016, 09:28 AM

  Hi all and Merry Christmas,
  
  I have some great news on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..  With some tweaking that does make sense, I was able to make 11 stars fit, Including constellation Taurus and other constellations to about an 87% accuracy; if you are pressing me about Bellatrix that is why.  I found constellations (and star names that use gematria) as you all know. Note that all these stars are present in the night sky for this time and can be viewed from Venice, Italy.
  
  In the maps below the first one listed is in standard format but chopped up to fit my work.  The reason I moved the quadrants around in the 2nd map was to see if f68r3 has order and it does, but Bellatrix is a little backwards and maybe a trick from the Author lol.  I believe what was intended is that the constellations to the North make greater sense in the format I provide with a 180 degree flip of Ursa Minor, Casseopeia and Triangulum. Taurus is to the right of Gemini in the 2nd map below.  Also in the 2nd map below Draco is placed in the upper left.
  
  What is very interesting is order, timing and and a fit (stars that are fairly close or very close which share proximity in the real world).  This is a valid point for puzzles ReneZ and Julian.
  
  Time: Venice, Italy 12/24/2016 4:16 pm
  
  
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  Gematria Calculator:
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

• RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r

  bunny > 25-12-2016, 09:50 AM

  (24-12-2016, 03:55 AM)ThomasCoon Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

  (23-12-2016, 10:05 AM)bunny Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

  (23-12-2016, 03:03 AM)ThomasCoon Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I think this is the part where I am not convinced - earlier in this thread, Stellar translated the first page of the Voynich Manuscript as the book of Genesis. Using his method, I could take the exact same set of 5 words and create: "Eighteen men escape Atlanta Georgia on bridge"
  "Crazy deer cause abominations on path."
  "Common men used Geico."
  
  This is why it's hard for me to believe the translations have "a common thread of subject matter" but I am open to considering it.

  You can pull out anything because you are pulling out random words, as you clearly demonstrate.  That is not the same as what others have done in recognizing the theme in the haystack.
  I know few would consider this has anything to do with the correct solution but what if it is right, what if the solution defies what is conventionally expected?  I guess we will just keep working on what is a fringe approach.  What it yields is not going to be relevant for most people. To boot I think the people the manuscript was actually written for have forgotten how to read their own book.

  
  You are right, I did use a random string of 5 words. However, I'm not convinced that there is a common theme when you translate longer selections either. I You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. that I could translate a whole section of text (25 consecutive words) into something wildly different than Stellar - JFK's speech about the moon landing vs. Stellar's book of Genesis. This makes me doubt the "theme in the haystack"

  
  If you could come up with JFK or the Moon landing as you say I would be really interested in that being a comparative result of the method.  I look forward to such results as null hypothesis tests.
  
  Whatever our different approaches to the manuscript a Merry Christmas to everyone today!
  
  Bunny

• RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r

  stellar > 28-12-2016, 08:42 AM

  Hey everyone,
  
  Anton started a thread about pipes regarding You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..  I decided to investigate its use and so I applied my cipher to it.  I have all the stars cataloged as Mars moves through the sky for London.  It is definitely an astronomy tool which shows the positions of stars for the movement of Mars in the night sky.  There is three identical VMS vords in this diagram and each one is a 51 in gematria which equals Mars.  As the earth rotates Mars is in three different quadrants of the night sky within the Voynich Pipes diagram at different times.  I have 2 more images to finish regarding Mars and the Pipes.  The Link below shows a tool where you can plug in the dates to investigate the night sky for 1410 London UK time.
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

• RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r

  stellar > 30-12-2016, 02:06 AM

  Hi,
  
  I was checking over You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. to see how my cipher was holding up today.  The plant below is a type of milky lettuce and is compared to the word, "lactis" which is for (milky plant as lettuce).  It looks like rocket lettuce or arugula to me.  So Latin words are also found with my cipher which is understandable.
  
  
  
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  
  
  

• RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r

  ThomasCoon > 30-12-2016, 02:57 AM

  (25-12-2016, 09:50 AM)bunny Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If you could come up with JFK or the Moon landing as you say I would be really interested in that being a comparative result of the method.  I look forward to such results as null hypothesis tests.

  
  Hi Bunny- I actually did come up with that. The post in full is You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., but below is an excerpt. It was 25 consecutive words, which is longer than many of Stellar's translations, and it used the same paragraph he claimed to have decoded:
  
  

  (03-12-2016, 05:08 AM)ThomasCoon Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.That is fair Stellar. But I can make a long story also.
  
  I claim that the red blotch on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is an eagle. I can make a "decryption" about the moon landing ("The Eagle has landed"), and JFK's speech which got the US to fund NASA and led to the July 1969 landing. Our win in the space-race caused other nations to doubt communist superiority, and the Voynich scribe (who must have been a prophet like Nostradamus) knew all that, because the Gematria method clearly says:
  
  1) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 2) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 3) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 4) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 5) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 6) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 7) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. [lunar contact] 8) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 9) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 10) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  11) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., 12) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 13) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 14) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 15) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 16) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 17) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 18) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  19) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 20) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 21) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 22) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 23) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 24) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 25) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (the name of the Apollo 11 lunar module)

• RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r

  ThomasCoon > 30-12-2016, 03:17 AM

  Hi Stellar,
  Have you tried seeing if your cipher can produce words in other languages, or other Latin word for this plant? I think this is important - if you find your cipher can produce 80 words in 10 languages that could all potentially describe this plant, that may be vital information on just how well the cipher "fits" the text.
  
  Also, "lactis" is the genitive (possessive) form of the word. It means milk's as in "This milk's color is strange" - so usually there would be another noun nearby if you use a genitive (like "color" in the example).
  
  All the best,
  Thomas

• RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r

  -JKP- > 30-12-2016, 05:16 AM

  FYI, in the old herbals, lettuce is usually labeled "lactuca" not "lactis" (and English herbals typically used the Latin word "lactuca" as well).
  
  Greens were not especially popular in England in the middle ages. Some people ate them and grew them but they were not commonly grown or imported to the extent that they are today. Bread (and later the potato) was a mainstay of their diets. If you look at many pictures of table settings in old manuscripts, you'll find a fair amount of variety at the king's table (and in the accounting ledgers of kings), but images of common people and even some of the lower nobility often show nothing but bread and sausage. Toward the south, variety increased.

• RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r

  stellar > 30-12-2016, 06:41 AM

  Jkp and Coon,
  
  Go ahead an dispute as much as you can about my findings; yet I'm coming from a logical premise where numbers are associated to words from the VMS imagery.  The letters that are substituted have weight as any cipher, although the Author would have had a great memory or he could read his own script.  I don't know how the Author reconciled his understanding of his own cipher to be honest.  Maybe he just wished to put all his findings into something that he thought would never be discovered.  This is the reason the VMS has never been recognized as a language for the letters that are substituted which are numbers are scrambled, but in some odd way the Author could read it.  When I pronounce some words that are in code (meaning the mixed letters) it does have an eerie sound to it like it is Celtic or some druid tongue.  Or Old Britain e Runic lingual.
  
  What you guys should be doing is constructive criticisms as if perhaps there is the possibility of an underlying language with the mixed up letters.
  
  for instance below the Author uses 2 different spellings for Calabrease (as in scrambled letters)yet yields the same number 67.
  
  If I pronounce RnRq like  RinRaq or like Ren Ra q. Sounds interesting.  
  
  And HENTCQ pronounced like  Hen Tic Q.  
  
  
  It is quite possible this guy developed his own language solely on Gematria.
  
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  

• RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r

  stellar > 30-12-2016, 07:46 AM

  Cipher is running very smooth tonight.
  
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  

• RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r

  -JKP- > 30-12-2016, 01:55 PM

  (30-12-2016, 07:46 AM)stellar Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Cipher is running very smooth tonight.
  
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  

  
  Stellar, you are not doing science. You are cherry-picking data to support your assumptions. You are taking one short-cut after another in a head-long rush in the direction you want to go instead of really studying the data.
  
  All plants collect dew on their leaves, many of them in this pattern. Finding one picture that seems to match a drawing means nothing if there are 30,000 other plants that would look similar if you photographed them first thing in the morning.
  
  
  The shape of the leaf isn't even the same. The VMS leaf is elliptical, the one in the photograph is rounded, somewhat kidney-shaped.
  
  The bumps along the central vein in the VMS picture might not even be dew drops, it might be a line of ridges, as some plants have. The ones on the edge are serrations, as is common on millions of plants.
• Next Oldest Next Newest