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  • Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r

  • RE: Saturn found in Stallar's results?

    bunny > 02-01-2017, 07:29 PM

    I have to apologise in advance for the grammar as this is how it came out, this oddness assumed to be the characteristic of text words needing to represent various languages, resulting in essence of meaning not grammar.  Some really unusually spelt words in context rarely shortened further in general, hence nefas vs nefastus.  Words may have 2 missing letters on top of Stellar's undetermined glyphs

    This is my interpretation in basic form:

    uounen 
    nunc vello 
    presently I conceal 
     
    uoe--                             et          oiia                                men            ut             cuoiien         et
    occulte                           et          vici+ oa = aio/ago/ora   mens            utor           ille Cronus   et
    secretly/in concealment   both...    refute                            knowledge    posess      he Cronus    and...


    en                      uo--            en       oiuse--            uoiiu                    -uia        uoiiud          uoiud
    mens                  volo            nec     orbis+vertit      vox+vicis              viae       divinus+o     vel+video
    understanding     determine    not     disc+turn         changing+voice     ways      divine          or perhaps+I see
       
    e--               sg-a                         uoun        sena          uoiuen                                               sen            e-nsa 
    edi               gens+a                    novum      sane          vulgo+niger                                       sensi          nefas(tus)
    devour     offspring+and then    to renew   doubtless    commonly/everywhere+ill omen/dark   perceived   sin/unlucky

    Attempting to make it into a more grammatically correct form below as far as the letters allow but probably not much better!  There were more suitable longer word choices but would have meant straying from the method formula.  The essence is retained in either case.

    uounen 

    uoe--  et uoiia men u cuoiien et en uo-- en oiuse-- uoiiu -uia uoiiud uoiud e-- sg-a uoun sena uoiuen sen e-nsa

    nunc velor
    occulte fert vici ora mens uti cronus inire est ne volens mens orbis verti vici voci viae vox divinum 
    vel video esus genus ac novus sane vulgo niger sensi nefas

    Bunny

  • RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r

    stellar > 03-01-2017, 10:53 PM

    The previous image of Chi-Rho had a incorrect number which affects the addition for the star word Alnitak.  The cipher was correct in the identification, but I accidentally put a 64 in instead of 68.  Here is the correct image.  

    Cheers Smile

    [Image: chirho11.jpg]

  • RE: Saturn found in Stallar's results?

    ThomasCoon > 05-01-2017, 02:10 AM

    (02-01-2017, 07:29 PM)bunny Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I have to apologise in advance for the grammar as this is how it came out, this oddness assumed to be the characteristic of text words needing to represent various languages, resulting in essence of meaning not grammar.  Some really unusually spelt words in context rarely shortened further in general, hence nefas vs nefastus.  Words may have 2 missing letters on top of Stellar's undetermined glyphs

    This is my interpretation in basic form:

    uounen 
    nunc vello 
    presently I conceal 
     
    uoe--                             et          oiia                                men            ut             cuoiien         et
    occulte                           et          vici+ oa = aio/ago/ora   mens            utor           ille Cronus   et
    secretly/in concealment   both...    refute                            knowledge    posess      he Cronus    and...


    en                      uo--            en       oiuse--            uoiiu                    -uia        uoiiud          uoiud
    mens                  volo            nec     orbis+vertit      vox+vicis              viae       divinus+o     vel+video
    understanding     determine    not     disc+turn         changing+voice     ways      divine          or perhaps+I see
       
    e--               sg-a                         uoun        sena          uoiuen                                               sen            e-nsa 
    edi               gens+a                    novum      sane          vulgo+niger                                       sensi          nefas(tus)
    devour     offspring+and then    to renew   doubtless    commonly/everywhere+ill omen/dark   perceived   sin/unlucky

    Attempting to make it into a more grammatically correct form below as far as the letters allow but probably not much better!  There were more suitable longer word choices but would have meant straying from the method formula.  The essence is retained in either case.

    uounen 

    uoe--  et uoiia men u cuoiien et en uo-- en oiuse-- uoiiu -uia uoiiud uoiud e-- sg-a uoun sena uoiuen sen e-nsa

    nunc velor
    occulte fert vici ora mens uti cronus inire est ne volens mens orbis verti vici voci viae vox divinum 
    vel video esus genus ac novus sane vulgo niger sensi nefas

    Bunny


    Thank you Bunny. Was this the post that would address the issue of the common thread between Gematria renderings? I just wanted to make sure I didn't miss it. Thanks in advance.

    As for your method, my general question would be, what is the use of this sentence that you have constructed: "Secretly both refute knowledge (I) possess, he Cronus, and understanding (/mind) determine not to turn the disc..."

    I am only curious (not trying to reproach) - thank you in advance!
    Stellar, thank you for the images Smile

  • RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r

    stellar > 05-01-2017, 11:23 PM

    Koen and the Crew,

    Thank you for your thoughts about my method for translating the text into Middle English.  I provided a dictionary here and you will see that the Gematria fits with the grammar which flows perfectly.  I believe this is the closest grammatical representation of any paragraph to date in History ever translated from the VMS Corpus.  For fun, I will let you all translate it yourselves since I did the leg work so just use the dictionary below.  If you are not familiar with searching for a word in the dictionary.  Simply open the dictionary below and use the upper right find in the Google browser.  Then type in one the words in Middle English that's in the Water Lily picture below.
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    [Image: voynich-manuscript-gematria-table-tom-e-oneil.png]
    [Image: 1lily.png]
    Large Middle English Dictionary
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  • RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r

    stellar > 08-01-2017, 06:17 AM

    [Image: hanged+jesuits3.jpg]


    Quote:It is cowardise and lack of hartes and corage that kepeth the Frenchmen from rysyng, and not povertye; which corage no Frenche man hath like to the English man. It hath ben often seen in Englond that iij or iv thefes, for povertie, hath set upon vij or viij true men, at robbyd them al. But it had not been seen in Fraunce, that vij or viij thefes have ben hardy to robbe iij or iv true men. Wherefor it is right seid that few Frenchmen be hanged for robbery, for that they have no hertys to do so terryble an acte. There be therefor mo men hangyd in Eglnd, in a yere, for robberye and manslaughter, than ther be hangid in Fraunce for such cause of crime in vij yers.
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    EnjoySmile
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    [Image: f1r111.png]
    Middle English Dictionary:
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  • Translation f58r first 2 letters could indicate syntax

    stellar > 04-02-2017, 08:38 PM

    Voynich Manuscript in Middle Engish

    Syntax and Logic of VMS

    First off, let me discuss the syntax and grammar of the Voynich Manuscript when my cipher is applied.  Prefixes in my cipher indicate nouns, adjectives, verbs, adverbs and conjunctions.  It seems to me, that the structure of the VMS within my cipher uses the first two letters as an indicator for what prefix maybe associated with the Ordinal number of the Gematria word.  As a basses’ for investigating word origins, my cipher combines syntax too Ordinal Gematria (A=1 throughout the alphabet Z=26) to find words in Middle English.   The tools for prefix’s and suffix’s examples are listed below, which indicate a structured language! Perhaps this script was invented by the Author Chaucer between (1361 A.D. through 1368 A.D.) or it is a lost Celtic language, which I believe was Geoffrey Chaucer’s choice.  I believe the Carbon dating is not fully tested yet for the Voynich Manuscript; or Chaucer in Old age near the end of the 14th Century laid down the text.
    Secondly, for me it is easier to read my cipher and see the logic going on with standard letters for syntax and grammar; yet these rules should apply to the VMS glyph’s too!
     
    Example: A prefix starting with (eo, rh, qt, rq ) indicate adjectives.
    Example: A prefix of (na, ra) a verb.
    Example: A prefix with (ne, v, r) a conj.
    Example: Prefix’s with (ne, he, ei, qi, te) nouns.
    Example: Prefix’s with (na,) pronoun
    Example: Suffix’s with (ao, nq) nouns
    Thirdly, the format of this document is setup so you can search it with Roman Numerals.  The black text is VMS and the blue text is the Ordinal Gematia Numbers of the Words, cipher and Middle English! Finally the red text is Modern English.

    I want to stress here that I have not fully investigated the syntax theory and I really would like some input and help here.  I know many don't like my theory, but this could be a great thought experiment and maybe someone here will see a pattern for syntax.  The story line does follow logic and obeys some rules for how a essay would written.  I don't write like this.  ReneZ, Torsten, Koen, SamG, Emma, llele, David, JKP and Thomas Coon or anyone do you see a pattern for logic with the first 2 letters of eva pointing toward syntax?


    kor cholfy shopchy otoralchy 
    36      75        50              77
    tek neoxq hefnq eiekaonq
    Real dispence Londe Conseil
    Royalty expenditures, London’s Council,

    II
    chofchol sholy otaly dal m dshodal or 
    77           45      47   34  22    65     16
    nexneo heoq eiaoq rao v rherao ek
    deffendeth defye bifalle, so gan tixt! Ek
    forbids repudiation to happen, so began lie!  Moreover

    III
    ckhy olchear char tal ytal ytar
    51        49       26    25    42     38
    ntq eoncak nak iao qiao qiak
    fremde Regne kan, Y war abeye
    Foreign Kingdom knows, the war to pay for,

    IIII
     
    olchokal ykechod dalal!dam ytam choty
    75              77       50     41    49   45
    eonetao qtcner raoao rav qiav neiq
    dispence nycetee muche oft Regne faille
    expenditures foolish.  Much often Kingdoms failure

    IV
    otchy otaly shoty s dshor cholar aiin 
    49      47     39  19   42     46      38
    eirq eiaoq heiq S rhek neoak allm
    abideth bifalle.  Faire and war algate bifil
    awaits to happen.  Business and war always happened.

    VI
    shalom shaly dalchy oteom dal sholalam
     
    51         41      65    54   34     67
     haoev haoq raonq eicov rao heoaoav
    Fremde acord demandes dette so apalled
    Foreign agreement questions debt, so faded

    VII
    qor dchairam otar otar char ar al 
    39      79         26    26    26   12  16
    wek rnalkav eiak eiak nak ak ao
    faire folily.  God ay kan ak ech
    business foolishly.  God always knows, but each

    VIII
    char arary ytalar cham torchey otaiin 
    26       41         54    37      59       52
    nak akakq qiaoak nav iekncq eiallm
    deel !  Oft Chirche galle brent hyne
    in every detail!  Often Church bitterness burned peasants

    VIIII
    chary oteory otal dalchor ykeey 
    43        50       30      64        60
    nakq eicekq eiao raonek qtccq
    alday slen oo dredeth peril
    daily, to kill, one fears peril.

    X
    choltam saiin chol!keey dal shom shol!
    66             57   34    43   34   35   28
    Neoiav sallm neo tccq rao hev heo
    Rist, dampned dye stac so to mo
    By moral law, condemned, die at stake so to others

    XI
    teol ytalody otey cheoly o tchy 
    32       82         34    54      5   40
    iceo qiaoerq eicq nceoq e inq
    abyd bountee, so Chirche ad decree
    remain virtuous; so Church made one take an oath, by Ecclesiastical Law.

    XII
    toleeshal oleeam dalor chy oteodchy 
    59              49         50     31    71
    ieocchao eoccav raoek nq eicernq
    Lorn Benefice, Londe, pardee doomes
    Lost ecclesiastical living, London, indeed judgements

    XIII
    yteochy otey kal dy alam sholaiin 
    65         34    36  35  39     66
    qicenq eicq tao rq aoav heoallm
    abydeth, so fey to per Rist
    awaits, so Faith to consequently by moral law

    XIIII
    chey y
    51
    Ncqq
    Crude
    Unrefined.

    XV
    teo!daiin qoar aiin arary sheey daiin 
    17    56      40     38     41       31     56
    ice rallm weak allm akakq hccq rallm
    Can wise chese lay?  Oft pardee wise
    Can wise choose religious law?  Often indeed wise

    XVI
    ealam tal ar am shar chepchey otar 
    42       26   13 22  20    57        26
    caoav iao aka v hak ncfncq eiak
    bobance ya!  Al dide hak affray God!
    boast yes! All did unsparing assault God!

    XVII
    aldy otal cheam qokaiin ote ry 
    51      30    40      86          45
    aorq eiao ncav wetallm eickq
    Sire make felle brenneth much
    Father, make cruel, burn! Much

    XVIII
    qocphody qokalam chairal qo ct!aiin 
    88             87           54       28    61
    wenferq wetaoav nalkao we niallm
    stryf bitwix Chirche, Man, Reallm
    strife between Church, Man, Realm

    XIX
    otalal dalor orar shoar ar choldal 
    46           50      28    25   12    68
    eiaoao raoek ekak heak ak neorao
    coom.  Londe Duc gale ak bihigte
    came.  London’s Duke complained loudly, but promised

    XX
    otalchal dal choldy okalys airaldy 
    60           34      69      77        75
    eiaonao rao neorq etaoqs alkaorq
    lutee, so Londes Conseil dispence
    little, so London’s Counsel expenditures

    XXI
    shar ytar sheear cheoldy ykeol 
    20    38      26       72         60
    hak qiak hccak nceorq qtceo
    sa hye kan, therof.  With
    debt increased knowingly, nothing to them.  With

    XXII
    cheal cheody chal chaiin ol oly sharam
    33      57     30   52    20 37    43
    ncao ncerq nao nallm eo eoq hakav
    the delices, make hyne deef gye, but
    the pleasures, make servants deaf governor, but

    XXIII
     okair chckaiin ytchaly dal chal ykal 
    49        86          73      34    30   53 
    etalk nntallm qinaoq rao nao qtao
    talke benynge, lutt bifel.  Oo canot
    conversation good, little happened.  One cannot

    XXIV
    okalal oly chal dy r chal qopaiim cholaly 
    57         37   30 35 18  30    81          67
    etaoao eoq nao rq r nao wefallv neoaoq
    boote gye! make ches em oo graunt Lionel
    remedy governor!  Make choice brother, one law Lionel
     
    XXVI
    dy shedy typchey ar air ytashy 
    35  46! NOT DONE, TWO MORE PARAGRAPHS!
    rq hcrq iqfncq ak alk qiahq
    Ches Leon.
    Choose Leon.

  • RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r

    davidjackson > 04-02-2017, 09:26 PM

    Threads merged as they are on the same subject.

  • RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r

    stellar > 23-02-2017, 06:18 AM

    New video explaining my method for decoding the VMS

  • Crabba Found f72r3 tied to JKP honorable mention:

    stellar > 13-03-2017, 07:20 AM

    JKP honorable mention made me research You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.!  I found in the small circle the word Crabba from my cipher!

    [Image: crabba1.png]

  • RE: Crabba Found f72r3 tied to JKP honorable mention:

    stellar > 14-03-2017, 07:56 PM

    I went over You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. with a find comb to get the cob webs out and its interesting that July actually needed refinement to the phrase, "The Crabba" like the lobsters to my satisfaction.  Also polar was set and the word for Virgo was set to true.  I received a very enthusiastic response from my programmer after he viewed the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and he also understood the underlying prefix's which were demonstrated implies syntax.  He is highly intelligent from what I surmised by the way he writes.  I believe by the end of summer 2017, I will be able to post the program or website that we design for a full translation of the VMS to Middle English! I will keep you all posted when its available Rolleyes
    A tool for viewing leltter values.
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    [Image: zodiacstars2.png]