Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r

Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r - Printable Version

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Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r - stellar - 20-11-2016

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In order to test if the VMS is in Welsh, I'm approaching it from a different angle. I'm still using the cipher chart and any column with a number the letters can be interchangeable as long as they come from the same column. To explain a glyph could represent a letter, "a" or letter, "s" as long as it comes from the same column (like from 1). In this test I'm not adding up letters and I'm also omitting glyph's that don't form a welsh word. I'm not using anagrams. I'm simply going from left to right in a VMS word and pulling out a properly spelled Welsh word. I decided to try this, because when I added up a few paragraphs with the numbers I assigned to the glyph's I felt I was dead on in the summation although Coon and JKP, felt I was not 100%. That is why I ran a VMS paragraph test to show that we can all miss count the VMS words. I will release those results when its ready.

The glyph's I did not use have red strikes through them. I pulled letters from left to right from VMS words and the letter equivalents can only be from the same column if the VMS glyph is different. The paragraph is what I call prose or a lament.

I will keep trying this method for paragraphs only as I believe the labels use numerology. As for the other paragraphs and phrases I'm not sure do to Coon and JKP.
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[Image: numerologychart18.jpg]

RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r - Koen G - 20-11-2016

Hi Stellar: just to prevent too many threads, could you please add any future posts about this new method to this thread? People find the multitude of threads a bit spammy, so this seems like a good compromise.

For insightful comments on your new method, we'll have to wait for Coon and JKP Wink

RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r - stellar - 20-11-2016

(20-11-2016, 10:05 AM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hi Stellar: just to prevent too many threads, could you please add any future posts about this new method to this thread? People find the multitude of threads a bit spammy, so this seems like a good compromise.

For insightful comments on your new method, we'll have to wait for Coon and JKP

No problem thanks

RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r - farmerjohn - 20-11-2016

stellar, the plant drawn on this page is savory. Take a look at You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. or google "savory". The word "savory" itself appears in text as ydy (conilis)

RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r - -JKP- - 20-11-2016

(20-11-2016, 09:48 AM)stellar Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....

The glyph's I did not use have red strikes through them. I pulled letters from left to right from VMS words and the letter equivalents can only be from the same column if the VMS glyph is different. The paragraph is what I call prose or a lament.

...

By crossing out glyphs you don't use, you can turn it into pretty much anything you want.

RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r - ThomasCoon - 21-11-2016

(20-11-2016, 10:05 AM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.For insightful comments on your new method, we'll have to wait for Coon

Koen you will be waiting a long time if you're looking for insightfulness from me Big Grin

Stellar, today has been a very busy day (10 hours of driving and moving furniture), but I promise to reply to your ideas in full tomorrow night. Your ideas are very interesting and I look forward to analyzing them.

RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r - ThomasCoon - 22-11-2016

Hi Stellar,
Thanks again for the work. It is always interesting to look at your methods and see your analytical process. I'm sorry for the long post but I'm going to tell a short story:

There was a professor named Alice Kober who worked on deciphering Linear B, which was another undeciphered script in an unknown language - just like Voynichese. Professor Kober didn't start by assuming that Linear B was a certain language - she didn't look at the tablets and say, "This must be Latin / Greek / Egyptian / Welsh" etc. Instead, she analyzed the signs and found out many important things about the language: she determined Linear B had an inflected grammar, that the script was a syllabary (not an alphabet), and she found out the sounds of certain signs. She did all of this without assuming (making an "ass" out of "u" and "me" as they say) what language Linear B really was. Linear B ended up being an ancient form of Greek.

In Professor Kober's day, there were many people who started by saying that Linear B was really Latin or Etruscan, and then they created deciphering systems to "prove" their assumptions. These systems were usually very loose: they could indeed produce Latin or Etruscan words, but they could also produce any other language. So, the "decipherment" was really worthless: it didn't really prove that Linear B was more likely to be Latin than Swahili or Hawaiian.

If your method can produce Welsh and only Welsh, then I would say you have deciphered the VMS. But if your method can produce multiple languages equally well, then your method does not prove that the Voynich Manuscript is encoded Welsh any more than Chinese or Russian or whatever language. So, this may be a good test: open up a German online dictionary, and try to see if you can't generate German words from a Voynichese paragraph using the exact method here. I will try this also (not right now though) and we will see if Welsh is the only possible language.

Sorry for the long post - did that make sense?

RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r - stellar - 25-11-2016

Hi all,

Well I went down the road with Gematria and a new cipher. I will post the new cipher when its finished, but it did yield all English for a Zodiac and Completed The Pleiades Section in my mind. I'm trying new things, because I'm starting to believe what JKP has told me all along that John Dee is not a likely candidate as the Author to the VMS. I have been racking my brain trying to find some validation for Pleiades though and I believe I found it, at this great Gematria website for finding key words to ciphers. Just below is a link from my cipher for the cipher key, "Zodyi", stands for, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. Ironically that key still has the same numbers, in my old cipher, for Welsh Numerology. Also I built a new Zodiac from 67r2 and its nearly dead on for all the planets and signs, AS CLOSE AS IT CAN BE!, (London, December 25, 1434 5:00 a.m.)

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I just wanted to add this image and it justifies the date of the VMS!

[Image: slippedinnumbers.jpg]

Here is the key path for cipher word, "oxay".

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RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r - stellar - 26-11-2016

[Image: secret1.jpg]

Well this verifies my cipher and it was a great deal of work! So here it is You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
At the bottom of this post is the decoded paragraph of f1r. Simply click on a word and it will show the code behind the word or phrase. Then do a search for the terms using the find in you upper right google find bar for the phrase or search word in the Gematria list of words and phrases. The code word corresponds from the letters to the voynich glyph's in my cipher from the Pythagorean Voynich Gematria chart below.

[Image: gematria-cipher-voynich-tom-oneil-2016-november-251.png]

[Image: gematria-cipher-voynich-tom-oneil-2016-november-251.png]

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RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r - ThomasCoon - 27-11-2016

Hi Stellar,
Is this the process you are using?

1) Look at what letters each Vord has (ex. #10 = sory)
2) Convert the Voynichese letters to Latin letters using the "Pythagorean Voynich Gematria" charts) (sory --> xoyi)
3) Calculate the Gematria value of the Latin-letter word (ex. xoyi = 438)
4) Find another English word with the exact same Gematria value (ex. "turn" in Gematria also equals 438)

Did I misstate anything?