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Month names collection / ...
Forum: Marginalia
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It is not Chinese
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Pisces (Folio 70v) and th...
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Which plaintext languages...
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Favorite Plant Tournament...
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Favorite Plant Tournament...
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Favorite Plant Tournament...
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Upcoming Voynich program ...
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[split] Color annotations...
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Wherefore art thou, aberi...
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top right corner of f1r, possible inscriptions

Posted by: oshfdk - 23-09-2024, 06:35 AM - Forum: Marginalia - Replies (9)

In another thread You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. a few other locations to look for potential features in MSIs, including the top right corner of f1r. It's mostly empty in the processed images of the models I trained on the margin of f1r, but this doesn't exclude possible writing there, provided that something about this writing (the writing implement, the condition of the vellum, the ink, the way the inscription faded, an offset image) is substantially different from the writing on the right margin.

I haven't yet trained any models, but here is the set of all MSI images of this area and a few potential new features to investigate. The cropped images are from the original 16-bit TIFFs mapped to 8 bit by applying gamma 3.0 and then running a min-max filter for this area in each individual TIFF (setting the darkest pixel to black and the brightest to white and scaling the rest proportionally).

The full resolution image: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Without running another linear regression model it's really hard for me to assess the actual presence and shapes of these features (and the feature Searcher mentioned), since different parts of them are visible in different wavelengths.

f116v squiggle from the multispectral images

Posted by: oshfdk - 20-09-2024, 10:54 AM - Forum: Marginalia - Replies (27)

I think I'll post some images and new information I have about the potential new feature on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. here in one thread, because it's hard to track it in the MSI thread.

Quick background: I was playing with various ways to enhance the multispectral images provided by Lisa Fagin Davis and discovered that when you combine the individual TIFFs using specific weights a certain "squiggle" appears in the bottom right corner of f116v. You can read the other thread starting from this post for more information: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Here's what the feature looks like and its size (there is a ruler next to the manuscript in the original TIFFs, so I used it to overlay a cm/mm grid on the images, it's much easier to see the grid in the full resolution photo: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. ).



If you want to obtain the original image of this feature yourself, you can download the TIFFs from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (the link provided by LisaFaginDavis) and get the following Python script to merge them: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

The whole feature appears to be about 3x3 cm. It also can be barely seen on individual TIFFs from the MSI set:



It looks a bit like a signature or a short inscription, but, as ReneZ noticed, the strokes are too wide for a pen. One possible explanation that I have: if the scribble was initially written on a wet page, it would make the ink in certain parts of it spread. If this is what happened, then probably the whole thing was immediately washed/rubbed off, leaving no visible traces. Since it would take time for the page to dry out, this could explain why the inscription was forgotten and never repeated.

Is this an actual inscription/stamp/offset of some distinct shape or just some random artifact of the page material, photography or processing?

Arguments for it being an actual inscription/stamp/offset:

1) The model was only trained on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. right margin and appears to detect non-visible or faint ink quite well both on the right margin of f1r and at the top of f116v, suppressing random noise. The darkness of features on the processed image directly corresponds to the probability of text ink according to the model. The model paints parts of the squiggle black, which signifies very high probability of the shape being made with ink.



2) The model only works on pixel values, without any spacial awareness. Each pixel of the result image is completely determined by the corresponding pixel on each of the TIFFs. It's highly unlikely that this model would produce a distinctive shape where no such shapes are present in the original TIFFs (and it's possible to discern them in the original TIFFs).

3) Both sides of the vellum in this particular spot show no visible folds, tears or other physical defects that could produce the squiggle shape.



4) It's quite natural a spot for a stamp or a signature. There is little empty space on the first page (especially if Tepenez's signature was already there), the top of the last page has some writing on it (assuming it was already there too), so the bottom part of the last page is where one can leave some ownership mark or something similar.

5) To me it seems unlikely that this is some artifact of photography (e.g., a reflection of something off camera; matrix or lens defect), since these images are made in a highly professional setting.

Arguments for it being some random artifact:

1) Frankly, it's hard for me to come up with a process that would produce this feature without this shape actually being drawn or imprinted on the manuscript. Could this be a random ink spill combined with some directional rubbing?

Wheel used to create text and text has no meaning

Posted by: voynichrose - 19-09-2024, 03:15 AM - Forum: Analysis of the text - Replies (11)

I have noticed many circular objects within the voynich manuscript from the astrology section to the cosmology section and so on. What if a method was employed for text creation to create no meaning and the voynich text was not balanced on the wheel; meaning there was not an even amount of characters on the wheel. Then the writer would simply spin the wheel and and record a character into the voynich manual. Therefore, some characters would come up more often then others and the writer had the discretion to stop spinning when he felt he had enough characters to form nonsense. The average voynich word is about 5 characters and this could be because the spinning would get old. Also using a wheel technology from the middle ages would be low tech so it would not be balanced.

Also I think a monk created the little text in private and was fantasying about women and tying them up. "page 80 vms".

[Image: GXzNSPHWMAA9zmr?format=jpg&name=small]

Roman numerals to Voynicheesy

Posted by: RobGea - 14-09-2024, 12:04 AM - Forum: Voynich Talk - Replies (5)

Roman numerals to Voynicheesy.

1. Convert plaintext to numbers using number values of the letters[1] then summing them (some words will have the same number)

2. Express the sum of the letters in a word, in Roman numerals e.g DCCLVII, in the non-subtractive form i.e VIIII not IX

3. Using multiple rules; including spaces, substitute groups of Roman numeral letters for groups of EVA-letters e.g ('IIII' --> 'in')

Example.
Some of the substitution rules:
'_CC' --> '_qo'
'CC'   --> 'ch'
'C'   --> 'k'
'XX' --> 'e'
'I_'    --> 'm_'

Some letter values:
t = 116
h = 104
e = 101
c = 99
a = 97

PLAINTEXT = "the cat sat on the mat"

the :: 321 :: [100, 100, 100, 10, 10, 1] 321 ['C', 'C', 'C', 'X', 'X', 'I']
cat :: 312 :: [100, 100, 100, 10, 1, 1] 312 ['C', 'C', 'C', 'X', 'I', 'I']
... etc ...

INTERMEDIATE = "CCCXXI CCCXII CCCXXVIII CCXXI CCCXXI CCCXXII"

CIPHERTEXT = "chkem qoshol qokeriin qoem qokem qokeol"

[1] Alphabetic numeral system : You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
     Numbers can be also be assigned arbitrarily or methodically e.g using a Polybius square.
   For this post, i used the the number representing the unicode code of a specified character.

==============================================================================================
This is a non-deterministic cipher, some words have the same number.

Also, i don't know (idk) if you can reverse the substitution rules for the letter-groups.

There is no way to derive the EVA-letters,
if this method was used, why, for example, substitute 'XX' for 'e', is it a stylistic choice ?
is there some underlying relation between vms glyphs, that can be seen as latin abbreviations, and the roman numerals they substitute for ?

With more work the rules could be changed, expanded upon, to render the ciphertext more like voynichese, but idk how close you could get.

Is it possible that with some small rule changes the voynichese dialects could be recreated ?

Is it possible that the substitution rules could be performed by a volvelle ?

I have not persued the idea further than this because, well, its kinda interesting but idk.

Voynichese checklist:
Entropy - check
Pseudo-repetition - check
Binomially distributed word lengths - hmm, with English plaintext its close, but using the same rules with italian plaintext , not so much.
Other - ?

PHONETIC TRANSLATION by AI OF ROMANIZED HEBREW TEXT TO ENGLISH.

Posted by: umbilikal - 12-09-2024, 11:15 PM - Forum: News - Replies (2)

I began by directing AI to examine the Romanized text and identifying possible word patterns, repetitions, and contexts. Each segment was carefully analyzed to deduce potential meanings based on context, phonetic resemblance to English words, and thematic consistency across the manuscript. The botanical sections were translated by identifying plant-related words and phrases, while other sections focused on spiritual and esoteric themes. The translations are hypothetical and aim to offer a coherent interpretation based on linguistic patterns and contextual analysis.

I used a version of the manuscript in plain text from here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

I built on the hypothesis/assumption brought by Stephen Skinner that the author is Jewish/Italian physician: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

I instructed AI to treat the text as Romanized Hebrew from circa 600 years ago.

The results AI produced are of course highly hypothetical but, the difference of text segments from the first part of the manuscript differs wildly.

First part:

Translating the Text to English (Interpretive)
Segment Interpretation:
"oy choy koaiin chckhey ol chor"
Hypothetical English: "Prepare the special plant, collect it in the container."
"ykeor chol chol cthol chkor sheol"
Hypothetical English: "Mix the herbs well, dry under the sun."
"olo r okeeol chodaiin okeol tchory"
Hypothetical English: "Combine all roots and place them in the ground."
"ychor cthy cheeky cheo otor oteol"
Hypothetical English: "At this place, mix well with earth and water."
"okcheol chol okeol cthol otcheolom"
Hypothetical English: "Prepare the mixture, let it rest on the ground."

1. tchodairos ar chey qotaiin opchey chtaiir shedy qotor sheol qotody tedy — Could imply 'Upon the entrance, where the winds meet, paths diverge through the ancient oak.'

2. oaiin cheokeeos lkaiin chkal kar cheeody qokeeody qokeey chos ar aiin ol — Might mean 'In the fields of eternity, the spirits dance beneath the starry sky.'
3. y sheol keechey cholkeedy qokaiin chedal lkches ar okain qokaiin oriim — Suggests 'From the sacred grove, the songs echo among the stones of ages.'
4. tchoarorshy qokaiin shey chckhhy sheolkchy qokeol kaiin checkhy ralchs — Could mean 'In the hidden sanctum, whispers weave between the shadows and light.'
5. sain cheeey cheo kcheey qokeey lkeeey okeeey lkchey lchor aiin otain al — Might imply 'The stars speak softly, guiding the steps of the wanderer.'
6. tchedy okeey cheeos lkaiin chey otain cheeody qokeeody okaiin oteedy — Suggests 'At twilight, the voices of old rise with the evening mist.'
7. ykeeol qokaiin olkal airody okaiin okalal loary — Could mean 'Through the archway, the winds carry tales of forgotten journeys.'
8. folorarom otchey qotar air otair opchedy qokeedody cheykeeoy rol lkar chsamoky — Might mean 'From the eastern mountain, the rivers flow, and the forest murmurs of secrets kept.'
9. teoar ain qotar ycheey otaiir otaiin okchy lkchdy oteol ar al araiin okal cheyor — Suggests 'Where paths converge, a lone traveler contemplates the essence of the soul.'
10. sar aiin chotar okeeodar qokain olol olam — Could mean 'Beyond the distant peaks, silence holds the unspoken truth.'
11. fchoctheody keeodar oteedy rchedy qokechy otches oporaiin oteody otaiin otl aroshy — Might imply 'Within the deep wood, the old spirits chant songs of the forgotten.'
12. dcheos otaiin otedy otodaiin qokeey rchchy qeeeear oteedy qokeedy otedar ar t oteesal — Suggests 'In the spaces between moments, knowledge dwells.'
13. tcheolchy lcheol chockhy cheodoiidaiin — Could mean 'In the heart of the forest, dreams grow wild.'
14. fcheshd teody lkeeody oteedy lchealaim shockhol opchedy qotaiin otar ar al oteal — Might imply 'Under the sacred canopy, mysteries unfold beneath the stars.'
15. ycheody qokeeor choltar olkam chokam odal sheckhy qokchedy otor otar toky — Suggests 'The path to wisdom lies in the courage to explore the unknown.'
16. dair ar okaiin chokaiin checkhol cholkaiin olchy — Could mean 'Where light meets shadow, unity is found.'
17. polaiin oteol otedy ar ar al kedy qokeedy olar aiin kchey dal otor ar opchey ro — Might imply 'Beneath the ancient sky, paths intertwine, forming new beginnings.'
18. or sheor oteeo cheey olkeey otol chotair otar qotar okar oko lkedal ram — Suggests 'Where the heavens touch the earth, life flourishes and renews.'
19. solchedy otsheody arl olchey oror — Could mean 'Within the walls of the old city, echoes never fade.'
20. poraiin otar ar okol shedy qokchedy otchdy qotor qoteedar roral fchee llor — Might imply 'Through the winding roads, voices speak of ages past.'
21. dar al sheey qotaiin chor cthol okeshos olchedy qokaiin okal okaiin olo — Suggests 'At the crossroads, the silence of the stones holds countless stories.'
22. ar ar okeey oeky otcheedaiin ol tchdy pcheol kcheor raiin cheey qokaram — Could mean 'Among the echoes of time, wisdom waits patiently.'
23. daiin chl lkeey lkaiin chdain qokain sheor okalchedy qokar olkam ar — Might imply 'From the gathering place of light, paths spread in all directions.'
24. saraiin shedy lcheey olkar okaiin cthor oraiin yteeeor — Suggests 'Under the canopy of stars, truths become clear.'
25. pychdar chckhedy otshedy tcheepchey lky lkches qokody lkeshdy fchocthar opam — Could mean 'With each breath, the winds carry the prayers of the living and the dead.'

I am not a scholar but I do believe AI will be instrumental in solving the manuscript. If indeed it can be solved.

I uploaded text in segments due to AI crashing if the volume of letters were to high so this documents is quite lengthy and repetitious at times.

I previously attempted to direct AI on the assumption that the text was Old Norse mixed with Old English but got no real results.

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Voynich Talk E3: Why your Voynich theory is wrong (pt1)

Posted by: Koen G - 10-09-2024, 02:03 PM - Forum: News - Replies (21)

I just uploaded the first part of the third episode of Voynich Talk!
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It is aimed at a broad audience, and attempts to tackle the issues with substitution ciphers in a way the layman can understand. I made this because I feel like there is a bit of a chasm between people who understand the statistics of Voynichese well (like many here on the forum) and those who don't. Bridging this gap is not an easy task, because concepts like conditional entropy can feel overwhelming to the mathematically impaired (it took me quite some time to understand it myself).

My hope is that next time someone exclaims "it's been solved", we can just have them watch a 12 minute video. This first part is all about the entropy problem, other issues may be tackled in subsequent parts.

I did put in a lot of effort in trying to up my video editing game, so I hope it is a bit entertaining for experienced researchers as well. In one scene I animated the crossbow, and there's a joke about corn.

Enjoy!

f17r multispectral images

Posted by: RadioFM - 10-09-2024, 03:03 AM - Forum: Marginalia - Replies (79)

	Any updated readings of f17r's marginalia? You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. ⭐

MSI at last!

Posted by: LisaFaginDavis - 08-09-2024, 05:47 PM - Forum: News - Replies (83)

My friends, I have some very exciting news for you! Roger Easton, who took the MSI images of selected pages of the VMS back in 2014, has sent me the images and given me permission to make them public. You can find them all, including the raw 16-bit TIFFs, here:

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I've written a lengthy blogpost with my own initial thoughts about some of these images:

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A few important revelations:

1) On f. 1r, the MSI images make the alphabets in the righthand margin legible. There are THREE columns of alphabets, and Rene and I have identified the hand as Marci's! Much more on this in the blog...

2) Those of you working on the inscriptions on f. 17r and 116v will find these images VERY useful!

3) These images make a very strong proof-of-concept case for imaging the entire manuscript. I'm working on it!

4) Dig in! There is much to see and explore!

Missing Constellations in VM Zodiac

Posted by: BessAgritianin - 07-09-2024, 07:34 AM - Forum: Astrology - Replies (85)

	Hello to all researchers in Astrology! How many are the missing constellations in VM Zodiac?

Why not positional variation?

Posted by: Koen G - 06-09-2024, 03:30 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text - Replies (69)

Whenever I look at the nitty-gritty of Voynichese text, I can't help but feel like some glyphs should be (positional) variants of each other.

* final glyphs have a flourish: Eva- s, n
* In a series of i-minims, the last one looks like EVA-n
* In a series of c-shapes, the last one looks like EVA-s
* EVA-q could be the preferred shape of EVA-y before o

There are also other things, like if you have a series of minims that is not preceded by [o], the first one looks like EVA-a. And I'm sure there's much more like this.
I'm also sure all of this has been remarked many times before. What I don't understand is that some of these features (like [n] being just another minim) have not been adopted as the default approach yet...

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