Hello everybody. As you may know I'm working on theory that VMS is written in Latin with phonetical key. The progress has been made, there are lot of ideas, guesses, theories and so on and so on... but this time I decided to add a little fun and changed the form of my work. Now it's presented as simple console application for PC and can be downloaded You are not allowed to view links.
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Manual: after downloading, unpacking and checking for viruses launch voynich.bat file, wait a bit, type Voynich words and read output file (why not to output on screen? Make some tries
)
Do not expect a lot. My Latin is awful and general problems with such approach are well known.
But if you like it some useful files can be found in program folder (incl. the key and dictionary).
And of course if you are interested and have good Latin skills I'm looking forward to cooperation
New update of vowelless Latin theory.
This includes You are not allowed to view links.
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Login to view. for finding all possible translations that match the key. The tool was upgraded, now it doesn't use Whitaker's Words program but rather uses source dictionary files of Words. This was done due to two main reasons:
1) Support for long vowels added (long vowels may be crucial thing for the VMS, I suppose; see attachment for details). Dictionary files were updated, but not very precisely (it's impossible for 40000+ entries).
2) Added possibility to append several suffixes to word (in original Words only one suffix was possible). On the other hand prefixation was removed.
Have a fun, as always.
Next update for the vowelless Latin theory. Currently the work is divided into several layers:
1) the key itself
2) phonetics
3) dictionary
4) translation
Despite understandable difficulties on each level the work is steadily moving on and things are not so fearful anymore.
A nice little conjecture that connects benched glyphs and 3rd Latin declension is presented.
(19-10-2017, 03:58 PM)farmerjohn Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Next update for the vowelless Latin theory. Currently the work is divided into several layers:
1) the key itself
2) phonetics
3) dictionary
4) translation
Despite understandable difficulties on each level the work is steadily moving on and things are not so fearful anymore.
A nice little conjecture that connects benched glyphs and 3rd Latin declension is presented.
I wish I had time to read this right now, but it will have to wait until this evening.
I took a couple of minutes to glance through it quickly (I can't look at it in depth until later).
I would be interested in the opinions of some of our Latin scholars since my Latin is very rudimentary, but in glancing through it I only saw a very small proportion of Latin words. The rest look a bit like Latin, but they are not, as far as I'm aware. But I am not an expert on this.
(19-10-2017, 10:42 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I would be interested in the opinions of some of our Latin scholars since my Latin is very rudimentary, but in glancing through it I only saw a very small proportion of Latin words. The rest look a bit like Latin, but they are not, as far as I'm aware. But I am not an expert on this.
Like you, JKP, I saw few latin words.
I checked in my dictionnary some words : they don't exist.
I cheked also the text. I noticed errors.
i.e. the voynichese word "chey" is translated in two different ways.
On the folio You are not allowed to view links.
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Login to view. chey = cartus.
On the folio f83r, chey = circus
"f4v, beginning of the first paragraph (2nd line)
ol chey chy
una cartus atrus
f83r, text near drawings (8th line)
daiin ol dain chey ldalor
illi una illo circus mıllianura"
Neither the words cartus, nor atrus, millianura and many others are latin words
So, for these reasons, as Helmut Winckler, I conclude that is really not Latin.
Thanks to everyone who has spent time reading and commenting my "papers", messages, etc.
I should probably explain some points (I assume that after that many will put me in one cozy group with well-known user, but I don't care of it anymore)
1) It's not Latin. It's some peculiar form of Latin. But still every word is acceptable by Whitaker's dictionary algorithm (I don't say Whitaker's dictionary, because now I use only his source files and his approach, but the program itself was rewritten). Except for:
a) words are allowed to jump to other declensions, conjugations, genders (which is common for medieval times)
b) one base form of word is used to produce derivations (typically 2nd form)
c) words of 3rd noun declensions, which IMHO are special
2) It's not true that daiin is illī, chey is cartus and so on. It's true that illī is daiin, cartus is chey, a bit different principle
(which is not complete true however, due to existence of abbreviation glyphs, such as m, g, pair y and f).
3) The work in this direction will continue because of some reasons. One of them being that the process from very beginning was converging, not developing.
Farmerjohn wrote:
Quote:1) It's not Latin. It's some peculiar form of Latin. But still every word is acceptable by Whitaker's dictionary algorithm (I don't say Whitaker's dictionary, because now I use only his source files and his approach, but the program itself was rewritten). Except for:
a) words are allowed to jump to other declensions, conjugations, genders (which is common for medieval times)
b) one base form of word is used to produce derivations (typically 2nd form)
c) words of 3rd noun declensions, which IMHO are special
Ok. Let us assume that this is a special form of Latin. Anyway, basic forms of words (as you say) must be translatable and be translated correctly. For example, you translate your interpretation of the part of the f3r: "Patrationellurum paraboli cupitorura copium apicorum comanus" as "Want to fill with points leaves of finished drawings". Nothwithstanding that I see here only two correct Latin words, I can just imagine that "patrationellurum" is "patratione[llurum]" (with fulfilment), "cupitorura" - "cupit[or]ura" (one (feminine) who desires to), "apicorum" - "apicarum" (of sheeps (some kind)) or "apiacorum" (of those similar to celery), "comanus" - "coman[u]s (bushy), but I have no idea, how you've got your translation. Actually, it is something like: "With fulfilment of a brave man that (she) who desires [something] of a short sabre of sheeps/ something similar to celery".
Farmerjohn,
I tried to understand your table 2, with the aim of figuring out the following question:
how would the person composing the Voynich MS have used it in order to convert his Latin text to Voynichese?
Basically, I am looking for the inverted version of your table.
It is not really clear to me whether this is even possible.
Would you be able to show how the author of the MS would have converted any piece of regular Latin into Voynichese?