(24-02-2023, 04:20 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.There is a small mistake on f23v: qoteotor should be qotcoHtor
You are probably right
this was marked as suspicious and rendered in red.
(Yes, post updates are very overlookable)
(11-03-2023, 10:07 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I have been working in this area off and on, and it came as a bad surprise that a straightforward coordinates conversion between the old and new scans was not going to work.
This issue was so serious, that I had create my own tool for finding subimage in image.
First, the geometry of old and new scans may differ significantly. Folios tend to be skewed near borders, so standard tools (like imagemagick) may be not very effective here. You may have perfect match in the center and complete disaster near edges (see for example right side of 104v).
Next are colors. Newer scans may be darker/lighter, so there can be perfect match in sense of coordinates, but no exact match when comparing pixel to pixel.
And finally, folios can be slightly rotated. Even several tenths of degree can notably improve matching index (no matter how you calculate it).
So my own approach for converting coordinates was the following:
1. Map the whole page to page. Thus get approximate coordinates
2. Map each word rectangle independently, trying coordinates from 1. +- some delta.
I found another mistake on f80r.35: both qokaiin should be qokain (same mistake in the old TT transliteration, fixed in the newer one).
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attachment=7250]
(11-03-2023, 05:32 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I found another mistake on f80r.35: both qokaiin should be qokain (same mistake in the old TT transliteration, fixed in the newer one).
Thanks,
nablator.
Unfortunately, it seems there are still a lot of errors despite various tricks (for example, the search was initially created just to have convenient visual representation of Voynich words and their respective transliterations)
(11-03-2023, 03:22 PM)farmerjohn Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You may have perfect match in the center and complete disaster near edges (see for example right side of 104v)
I immediately had to try this page, of course.
Without making any changes to my tool, it failed from the start, because the very first guess for the first word on the page was not fully inside the search window. The tool keeps track of the offset, once it has found alignment, but it never got there. The quick fix is obvious: increasing the search window. This slowed things down a bit further, but at least I could observe that, indeed, it was not working very well near the right margin.
Only in one case did it miss the word completely, and in numerous cases the box was far too small.
I have some tunings of the tool in mind, to make it keep track in a more intelligent way.
The wrong box sizes will not be easy to fix, but I want to find at least part of the word inside the box, fully automatically.
(11-03-2023, 03:22 PM)farmerjohn Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Next are colors. Newer scans may be darker/lighter, so there can be perfect match in sense of coordinates, but no exact match when comparing pixel to pixel.
This is effectively solved by comparing lightness values and computing the correlation coefficient. This is relatively insensitive to such colour effects.
Hello Farmer John,
Your tool is quite impressive. Very clear and nice looking. Voynichese is simply too small, you cannot work with it.
I'm trying to make something similar myself now (maybe more humble) and would have a few questions.
I didn't understand it properly, did you converted data from Voynichese.com or did you eventually marked the positions of the words yourself?
I found xml files they use on You are not allowed to view links.
Register or
Login to view., it's something like that:
<folio name="f100r" wordCount="111" width="1083" height="1500">
<word index="0" x="159" y="84" width="105" height="31">chosaroshol</word>
<word index="1" x="280" y="69" width="93" height="44">sochorcfhy</word>
<word index="2" x="416" y="64" width="54" height="30">otear</word>
But I cannot find the page images they use. I guess you must be very precise here, your image has to be the exact size they give and probably cropped at borders the same way they did.
Were you using their images or did you prepared your own images as well?
Hello
Rafal,
The images I used are scans from Beinecke, probably the latest ones.
As for coordinates, I downloaded them from You are not allowed to view links.
Register or
Login to view. in form of json, then mapped to scans, then adjusted manually where necessary (mostly everywhere). The xml files from github where useless for me since lacking corresponding images.
Thanks for info!
Shame that they decided to share some of their work but not all making things that they shared useless
By the way, I had a look at your solution. You certainly put a lot of careful work into it but I'm sorry to say that I'm unconvinced:
"Came to dark forms. Destroying abundant satire, creating small animation.
Composed diminution, adding plainness. Diminutive word added, giving
even names. Added diminution, giving up another odiousness.
Severity. Creating acuteness, malevolent creating. Adding
witty comedy. Came to slow kindness.
Producing boldness, creating a lot of acuteness, producing allegories.
Revealed boringness. Have no other sharpness.
To odiousness. Creating numerous needles. Creating liveliness. Produced
uniformness.
Put away. Spicing evenness. Came to another sadness. Animating another
firmness."
It sounds like some modern artist talking on acid. And I'm a simple guy, I still believe that these
pages with plant drawings are just a medieval herbal
(18-06-2023, 05:30 PM)Rafal Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Thanks for info!
Shame that they decided to share some of their work but not all making things that they shared useless
By the way, I had a look at your solution. You certainly put a lot of careful work into it but I'm sorry to say that I'm unconvinced:
"Came to dark forms. Destroying abundant satire, creating small animation.
Composed diminution, adding plainness. Diminutive word added, giving
even names. Added diminution, giving up another odiousness.
Severity. Creating acuteness, malevolent creating. Adding
witty comedy. Came to slow kindness.
Producing boldness, creating a lot of acuteness, producing allegories.
Revealed boringness. Have no other sharpness.
To odiousness. Creating numerous needles. Creating liveliness. Produced
uniformness.
Put away. Spicing evenness. Came to another sadness. Animating another
firmness."
It sounds like some modern artist talking on acid. And I'm a simple guy, I still believe that these
pages with plant drawings are just a medieval herbal
It should be noted that the full collection of full-size VMS images is about 2GB, so sharing it (even if scaled) might be non trivial (voynichese.com is almost 10 years old and first appeared on Google Code). The only major problem with voynichese.com is that it is not being updated while having certain transliteration errors. Otherwise it is absolutely fantastic thing - design, speed, functionality are absolutely ok even after decade or so.
My point if view is that VMS is satyric work, not directly related to images.
Why satiric versus religious or some alchemical-astrological hocus-pocus, or a difficult hausbuch and pharmacopeia? To what images do you refer? Granted that the whole "large plant portion" of the VMs has thus far failed to produce any herbal connections. What other folios of the text have been considered?
I believe the significance of the so-called 'Stolfi's markers' has been overlooked. There are markers in the cosmic section, in the zodiac sequence, and in the nine rosettes. Clearly, they function as markers of text segments. They do exist in several pattern variations, so there can be various potential combinations.
Does the circular text on the VMs cosmos say anything cosmic?
Do the elaborate markers, used in the VMs zodiac (White Aries & Cancer) have a special significance?
Do the circles around the Moon contain a prayer to the Virgin Mary?
Who knows??? It was the Middle Ages.
(18-06-2023, 09:13 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Why satiric versus religious or some alchemical-astrological hocus-pocus, or a difficult hausbuch and pharmacopeia? To what images do you refer? Granted that the whole "large plant portion" of the VMs has thus far failed to produce any herbal connections. What other folios of the text have been considered?
I believe the significance of the so-called 'Stolfi's markers' has been overlooked. There are markers in the cosmic section, in the zodiac sequence, and in the nine rosettes. Clearly, they function as markers of text segments. They do exist in several pattern variations, so there can be various potential combinations.
Does the circular text on the VMs cosmos say anything cosmic?
Do the elaborate markers, used in the VMs zodiac (White Aries & Cancer) have a special significance?
Do the circles around the Moon contain a prayer to the Virgin Mary?
Who knows??? It was the Middle Ages.
I suspect that this post ended up in the wrong thread. Maybe someone can move it?