so he's checked it, it's a new concept, explains a few things, somethings still to be explained but I'm working on those and hadn't shared that part with him, just the basic decode, will do a full decode of 104r and send it back :-) I'm still all good with my decode.
That's not quite what I meant to convey in my email.
There was criticism, which you may have missed.
Let me try to explain.
I signed an NDA, but on the condition that I could make general remarks which don't give away the system. Nothing I will say can allow someone to replicate the method.
The good:
- Not the usual simple substitution cipher we see so often. It's not shockingly out of the box, but a breath of fresh air nonetheless.
- Repeatable and consistent, little to none wiggling to make it work. At least in the current iteration. The method was explained clearly, and with the provided information, I could start converting text.
- The method ignores Latin grammar, but in a way I find entirely unproblematic.
However, there are big issues, which I will attempt to explain as well as possible without being specific.
- Misuse or misunderstanding of EVA. This part alone undermines the whole system.
- Entirely based on arbitrary choices. If different choices had been made, we could still read the MS, but it would say something else entirely (in an equally weird way). The method allows one to make thousands of vastly different translations, without any way of telling which one is superior. The MS can be whatever you want it to be. The only reason why I call the method repeatable, is that the choices have been made by the solver, so I could replicate those.
- A "worldview" (using general term here) is then invented for the author in an attempt to make sense of the resulting translation. But it's still bizarre. And the evidence becomes circular. Why is your translation problematic? Because the author was doing this and that. How do we know that? Well, just look at my translation.
- The method takes a specific known issue with Voynichese text and makes it many times worse, to an absurd degree. I won't say which issue, but it's bad.
Needless to say, I don't believe the MS has been solved, nor that it will be solved by this method.
(13-04-2025, 10:20 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.That's not quite what I meant to convey in my email. There was criticism, which you may have missed.
Let me try to explain.
I signed an NDA, but on the condition that I could make general remarks which don't give away the system. Nothing I will say can allow someone to replicate the method.
The good:
- Not the usual simple substitution cipher we see so often. It's not shockingly out of the box, but a breath of fresh air nonetheless.
- Repeatable and consistent, little to none wiggling to make it work. At least in the current iteration. The method was explained clearly, and with the provided information, I could start converting text.
- The method ignores Latin grammar, but in a way I find entirely unproblematic.
However, there are big issues, which I will attempt to explain as well as possible without being specific.
- Misuse or misunderstanding of EVA. This part alone undermines the whole system.
- Entirely based on arbitrary choices. If different choices had been made, we could still read the MS, but it would say something else entirely (in an equally weird way). The method allows one to make thousands of vastly different translations, without any way of telling which one is superior. The MS can be whatever you want it to be. The only reason why I call the method repeatable, is that the choices have been made by the solver, so I could replicate those.
- A "worldview" (using general term here) is then invented for the author in an attempt to make sense of the resulting translation. But it's still bizarre. And the evidence becomes circular. Why is your translation problematic? Because the author was doing this and that. How do we know that? Well, just look at my translation.
- The method takes a specific known issue with Voynichese text and makes it many times worse, to an absurd degree. I won't say which issue, but it's bad.
Needless to say, I don't believe the MS has been solved, nor that it will be solved by this method.
Thank you for your time, I disagree with respect, I don't think you looked at it correctly or fully but that was partially my fault in excitedly explaining it to you and not really showing you the bigger picture, the code is half of it, the rest is in the structuring, hopefully the later PDF I sent you may think again but if not it's fine, I'll be completing several folios and will publish them online
(13-04-2025, 11:34 PM)Kris1212 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.... I'll be completing several folios and will publish them online
Perhaps you should provide your translations for those elements requested by RadioFM in message #37 of this thread (as repeated below)?
(13-04-2025, 06:10 PM)RadioFM Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hi! Here's a checklist for you to go through before you jump the gun. Most likely, your solution will translate the following lines in the manuscript to nonsense/gibberish:
(from f17v)
qokeey kchor ol dy choldaiin sy
ycheol c'hol kchol choltaiin ol
(from f27v)
dchy chkar otchy c'hy c'hy dchy dc'hy kchy cheo daedy dchy
(...)
dc'ho k chsss okeedy / dchschy sotchdy
c'ho c'hoykcho c'hdy / dchd / chschsy otchdy
okc'hes ykchokc'hy
(from f75r)
qokedy dy c'hety qokedy qokeedy qokeeedy lol
qokeedy qokeedy qokedy qokedy qokeedy ldy
yc'hedy qokeedy qokeedy olkeedy otey koldy
Also, these words:- opcholdy
- asal
- doary
- dydyd
- daldal
- odl
- okal
- okeor
- ior an on
(13-04-2025, 09:31 AM)Kris1212 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (13-04-2025, 09:20 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Do you use any application in your process? Google Translate specifically is notorious for making Voynich theories "work" because it always tries to give you a meaningful translation even when the input is nonsense.
No just spreadsheets and google docs....and AI when i was trying to work things out, so angry with ai, it's absolutely useless with data or following simple instructions
Can you give me the doc + sheet, for me to check?
Here is mine: You are not allowed to view links.
Register or
Login to view., can you check?
(14-04-2025, 06:15 AM)AxolotlDoesVoynich Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (13-04-2025, 09:31 AM)Kris1212 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (13-04-2025, 09:20 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Do you use any application in your process? Google Translate specifically is notorious for making Voynich theories "work" because it always tries to give you a meaningful translation even when the input is nonsense.
No just spreadsheets and google docs....and AI when i was trying to work things out, so angry with ai, it's absolutely useless with data or following simple instructions
Can you give me the doc + sheet, for me to check?
Here is mine: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., can you check?
Sorry no, not until it's online, Koen signed an NDA
(14-04-2025, 04:17 AM)asteckley Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (13-04-2025, 11:34 PM)Kris1212 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.... I'll be completing several folios and will publish them online
Perhaps you should provide your translations for those elements requested by RadioFM in message #37 of this thread (as repeated below)?
(13-04-2025, 06:10 PM)RadioFM Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hi! Here's a checklist for you to go through before you jump the gun. Most likely, your solution will translate the following lines in the manuscript to nonsense/gibberish:
(from f17v)
qokeey kchor ol dy choldaiin sy
ycheol c'hol kchol choltaiin ol
(from f27v)
dchy chkar otchy c'hy c'hy dchy dc'hy kchy cheo daedy dchy
(...)
dc'ho k chsss okeedy / dchschy sotchdy
c'ho c'hoykcho c'hdy / dchd / chschsy otchdy
okc'hes ykchokc'hy
(from f75r)
qokedy dy c'hety qokedy qokeedy qokeeedy lol
qokeedy qokeedy qokedy qokedy qokeedy ldy
yc'hedy qokeedy qokeedy olkeedy otey koldy
Also, these words:- opcholdy
- asal
- doary
- dydyd
- daldal
- odl
- okal
- okeor
- ior an on
Yes I can but no I'm not, not yet, once the folios are online then you'll be able to see them yourself.
(14-04-2025, 07:13 AM)Kris1212 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (14-04-2025, 06:15 AM)AxolotlDoesVoynich Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (13-04-2025, 09:31 AM)Kris1212 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (13-04-2025, 09:20 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Do you use any application in your process? Google Translate specifically is notorious for making Voynich theories "work" because it always tries to give you a meaningful translation even when the input is nonsense.
No just spreadsheets and google docs....and AI when i was trying to work things out, so angry with ai, it's absolutely useless with data or following simple instructions
Can you give me the doc + sheet, for me to check?
Here is mine: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., can you check?
Sorry no, not until it's online, Koen signed an NDA
What do you mean "Koen signed an NDA"? That is a little suspicious.
(14-04-2025, 07:38 AM)AxolotlDoesVoynich Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (14-04-2025, 07:13 AM)Kris1212 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (14-04-2025, 06:15 AM)AxolotlDoesVoynich Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (13-04-2025, 09:31 AM)Kris1212 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (13-04-2025, 09:20 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Do you use any application in your process? Google Translate specifically is notorious for making Voynich theories "work" because it always tries to give you a meaningful translation even when the input is nonsense.
No just spreadsheets and google docs....and AI when i was trying to work things out, so angry with ai, it's absolutely useless with data or following simple instructions
Can you give me the doc + sheet, for me to check?
Here is mine: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., can you check?
Sorry no, not until it's online, Koen signed an NDA
What do you mean "Koen signed an NDA"? That is a little suspicious.
I mean I'm so sure that this is the decode that before I gave him the decode I asked him to sign an NDA, not suspicious just protecting my decode and my work
Yeah, I didn't mind too much since we agreed that I could still provide generalized comments. It's not up to me to share the details.
It's a shame that you gladly ignore criticism though. I recommend you seek a second opinion. Although you'd get the same criticism and ignore them too.
(14-04-2025, 09:16 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Yeah, I didn't mind too much since we agreed that I could still provide generalized comments. It's not up to me to share the details.
It's a shame that you gladly ignore criticism though. I recommend you seek a second opinion. Although you'd get the same criticism and ignore them too.
I'm sorry that I'm not taking your word for it and that you are upset by that but quite frankly I disagree and your critiques, I haven't ignored them...I can answer every single one of them, your mind is closed to my theory. You have my email, I'm happy to go through it with you if you wish, my theory just keeps confirming and the more I look the more I find. I hope to publish in a few days and then I'll welcome everyone to look at it, there will always be people who disagree. This is not new for me, I always push on regardless and it's stood me in good stead so far. I appreciate the time you took for this.