The Voynich Ninja

(15-05-2023, 05:32 PM)Bernd Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I still think 4 geese as tax for a goatherder seems excessive. 

How did we get to this point? 

The kamich thing sounds interesting. Any chance this material is mentioned in any source?

We'd have to look into medieval German texts on vinegar/wine production, if something like this exists. The problem is that 'kamich' is an adjective and even taking the "chasmich" variant into account it's still a stretch to reach 'ga(i)smich". I have no idea what the noun is or would have been called in the 15th century south alpine region.
There was a specific job dedicated to producing and maintaining yeasts for beer and vinegar in medieval times called Hefner.
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I have been looking for a specialist or community proficient in the medieval German/Austrian tithe system who would know about "gaismich Gens" but no success so far. I'm surprised there appears to be no amateur research community regarding medieval life in Germany.

(15-05-2023, 08:59 PM)Bernd Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The problem is that 'kamich' is an adjective

It appears to be both: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

"Kamich" as noun and "kamig" as adjective

(15-05-2023, 08:59 PM)Bernd Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I have been looking for a specialist or community proficient in the medieval German/Austrian tithe system who would know about "gaismich Gens" but no success so far

I can file a question at ResearchGate (or you may, if you're a member), but after my un-answered question about mich as milch I'm a bit disencouraged.

(15-05-2023, 05:32 PM)Bernd Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I still think 4 geese as tax for a goatherder seems excessive. Remember this was usually a yearly tax paid to the feudal lord whose employee the goatherder was who in turn paid the goatherder. It might make more sense if both goatherder and a large flock of goats belonged to the feudal lord / property owner, see my post on Bestandsvieh.

Well, this trail of feudal property relations that you described is not easy to follow. Suppose the goatherders were four in number? Or, if that looks too many (implies enourmous number of goats), then two by two? Two geese per each goatherder. Does that make sense?

Then, there must have been other employees beyond goatherders. Because there would have been cows, sheep, horses, pigs etc. Why goatherders would be specifically distinguished out of all of them? Or it's just coincidental that in these two cases there were goatherders exclusively?

I like the idea about geismich and geisjunge being the same thing, because it elegantly explains why those editors obsoleted the footnote without any explanation - it was evident to them that the two attributes are just one and the same. But the "property" connotation seems to me a bit shaky just because it implies unexplained emphasis on the goat-breeding side of the feudal agriculture.

There were also the Other Shepherds.
Sheep / shepherd / shepherd dog.
Swineherd, Cowherd. With horses I do not know.

So probably the best known cowherds are still to be seen in the Appenzeller Alpabzug. To the children the goats and then come the cows. The dog is a Bless, Appenzell shepherd dog. A cow herder.
As an Appenzeller (Gais), it would be a shame if I did not know.

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Back to the gaismilch here is a sample of the word:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., date 1442.
[attachment=7398]
The top red script starts: seine schof sterbn.
The second line: gaismilch und misch dy mit wasser.
As my German is very poor I prefer than a german speaker translates it.

The ending of gaismilch can generate doubts but here is a sample of a word with lch in the same manuscript and written is the same style, melchor
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[attachment=7399]
Gasspar waltahasar melchor

"? want his sheep to die.
He shall take gai's milk and mix it with water and give it to him to drink. (rint ?) water it helps them.
rint, perhaps from riche (rich/give).  "sy" she/they

Casper, Baltasar, Melchior and their three ....

I'm pretty sure it's "gaismilich" in this case, with an extra "i". As Aga says, the other word is Melchior, but the letters appear switched around to "Melichor".

(05-06-2023, 10:56 PM)Juan_Sali Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The second line: gaismilch und misch dy mit wasser.

It's gaismilich, with 3 "i" a variant spelling of gaismilch, goat milk, right?

It appears a lot in recipes:

Medieval Dietetics: Food and Drink in Regimen Sanitatis Literature from 800 to 1400
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"Semeln und prech dy in Gaismilich vnd ess dy also warms"

Johannes Hartlieb "Kräuterbuch"
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"Wer seinen safft trincket mit gaismilich und trinckt das in dem maien"

Forschungen zur Fachprosa
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"September ist der herbstmon vnd ist ein mittelmessigs moneyd. So sol man des morgens essen ein pissen päcz protz aus ainer gaismilich."