The Voynich Ninja

(10-05-2023, 05:56 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.So maybe a boy goatherd?

I thought so, but my knowledge of the language is too limited to be certain. Also, in the 1st source it says he was "Gaisjunge" with woodcutters. Looks weird that woodcutters would bother with goats.

There is a possibility that geese were used to guard other livestock: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

That still doesn't explain gaismich goose, unless gaismich is short for Gaismichael, the goatherd...

Interesting. But even if so, why mention that in the legal document, what value it added? After all, the clergy were to eat all those geese, weren't they? Perhaps these combat geese were inferior in quality (as opposed to "gemast" ones)?

Something like "goatherd's goose" could also simply mean a goose from a herder's flock. Herding dogs can be used to move large groups of geese around, just like one would herd cattle.

All "Gaisjunge" entries clearly mean goatherder. I do not think it makes sense as guard geese. Those received as tax were eaten.

Also from the Herzogenburg collection:
virczk air vnd vir ches ze Phingsten vnd zwai hvener an Sand Michels tag vnd ein gans vnd zwai hverr zv vaschang.
40 eggs and 4 cheese at Pentecost and 2 chickens at St. Michael's day (Sep 29) and 1 goose and 2 chickens at Carnival.


vnd ein Gans fuer funf phennig an sand Michels tag. vnd ze Pfingsten nevn Ches.
and a goose for 5 pfennige at St. Michael's day (Sep 29) and at Pentecost 9 cheese

vnd ain gans an sand Merten tag oder funf phennig vnd ze Phingsten sechz chaes
and a goose at St Martin's day (Nov. 11) or 5 pfennige and at Pentecost 5 cheese

I think we can rule out gais- as a date.

We also have a white goose with red eyes in a document from Vienna, 1426
ain weisseu gans mit roten augen und vier hu/ener
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There are over 120 entries of gais- and almost all of them are "gaistlaich" -> clerical. The rest are names of people or places. Only one mention of goats from Vienna, 1460 as "Gaiss"
Item von Ochssen oder kuen, die man ueber die prugken treibt, hin, oder her, sol man von yedem haupt zwen phening geben. Item von klainem viech, als kelber, swein, kastrawn, Schof, Gaiss, die man uebertreibt, sol man alveg von vier haupten ainen phening geben.
Toll for crossing a bridge - 2 pfennige for large animals like cows, 1 pfennig for every 4 small animals like goats
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The monasterium.net collection is a trove of Austrian documents contemporary with the VM, maybe someone finds matching letterforms. Or not. Both would be a clue.


A final interesting note regarding the VM timeframe and Austria:
In 1420/21 the Jewish community of Austria, especially Vienna was basially eradicated in a pogrom which was also carried out by decree of Albrecht V Duke of Austria. The poor were exiled, the rich were imprisoned and stripped of their possessions. Few survived. Children were forcefully bapticized.
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You need more context.
Gaissenjunge can be a goat boy or a shepherd boy. Think of Heidi and the Gaisenpeter.
Autumn and winter chickens are chicken breeds. They do not take a winter break when laying eggs.
Barrel grouse is also a breed. The stay chicken belongs to it.
So I think that the goose is also a breed. All white or gray on top.
The letter is not about taxes, but about a will.


Man braucht mehr Kontext.
Gaissenjunge kann ein Ziegenjunge sein oder auch ein Hirtenjunge. Denk an Heidi und der Gaisenpeter.
Herbst und Winterhühner sind Hühnerrassen. Sie legen beim Eierlegen keine Winterpause ein.
Fassanhuhn ist auch eine Rasse. Das Stayrehuhn gehört dazu.
So denke ich das auch die Gans eine Rasse ist. Ganz weiss oder oben grau.
Im Brief geht es nicht um Abgaben, sondern um ein Testament.

I agree it is most likely a type of goose, and if we are to find an answer we might be able to extrapolate it from a list of medieval goose types or something along those lines. So far I've been finding mostly fattened geese though.

If "goat milk" is used as an adjective, we might also expect to find it in other contexts. None of this makes any sense...

@Aga Tentakulus
Sorry but I'm afraid you're the one who got the context wrong, no offense.
Herbsthuhn and Faschingshuhn are clearly chickens to be delivered as tax at a certain date, not a breed.
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And the document containing "gaismich" lists the amount of taxes which have to be paid yearly for the property that is being sold by Leo of Franzhausen and his wife Katharina to Johann von Wildungsmauer, brother of the Abbot of Herzogenburg Monastery. It's not a will and this is clearly stated in the abstract.

Quote:Leo von Franzhausen und seine Katharina verkaufen an Johann von Wildungsmauer Pfennig und Naturaldienste auf Gütern zu Teufelsdorf und Grub (Pfarre Kilb) um 97 Pfund Pfennige.

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However this is irrelevant and not worth nitpicking over. We need to find a relation between gais- and geese. I'm trying to look into medieval goosekeeping now but apart from that I'm out of ideas.

@Bernd
I am now unsettled.
So I have just read about autumn and winter chickens.
There it was about the winter break, hence the designation.
But have now also found something about Fastnacht and autumn chickens at Wiki. Admits however also gladly a mistake if I should have made one.

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[attachment=7343]

A find on the possibility "valden" (walden).
Text in English:
Take a cup of wine or beer and let it "la walden" ( give time ) with each other and pour it down the horse's throat.