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[Zodiac Rating] VIRGO
- [Zodiac Rating] VIRGO
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RE: [Zodiac Rating] VIRGO
eggyk > 09-07-2026, 01:20 PM
Okay, the initial list of ~100 virgos have been added to the sheet, along with their images. The attributes that are currently represented are:
Wingless
No / Yes
Arms pointing forward (like in VMS)
Definitely no / Everything In between / Definitely Yes
Clothing
no clothing / wearing clothes / wearing blue clothes
Trailing Dress
not trailing / Probably trailing or widely spread at bottom / Clearly trailing behind
On terrain?
no / yes / in meadow with flowers
Hair
long or flowing hair / Uncertain (not obviously long) / Hair done-up, short
Sleeves
tight or no sleeves / Open space at shoulder level (like hands coming from inside a cloak) / Wide open sleeves by hands / +dagged
Headwear
no headwear / headband or wreath / fabric headdress or hat
Holding Something?
holding something unrelated / holding nothing OR holding single flower / holding star
And there are currently 2 criteria being tracked, but not contributing to the average score:
Facing left?
no / yes
Finger Pointing (far hand?)
no / kinda / yes
Generally: scores of 0.01 represent cases where we cannot see whether something is true or not, like if the hands are not visible. This is to give an effective 0 score for the average, but to seperate unknown out from wrong.
(Many have been fully scored by both me and Koen, but some entries still contain either blank or uncertain scores for some criteria where I was not confident on how to rate. Apologies if there are any mistakes in some of the scores, please point them out if you see them)
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Additionally, I have added a "Context" column to track which context/usage the depiction was found in (not scored, only info). This is in order to track any differences that may exist between them, which may be interesting to discuss here. Right now, many/most of them are blank as I only considered to do this about 2/3s through adding entries.
The categories fall broadly into the following so far:
-Calendar
-Under/with "planet name"
-Seperate section (its own section)
-Zodiac Wheel
-Zodiac Man (with all the signs depicted on the body)
-other
My next step -other than tweaking things that end up wanting to be tweaked- is to try increase the dataset as much as possible over time.
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RE: [Zodiac Rating] VIRGO
Koen G > 09-07-2026, 03:31 PM
Excellent! I am sure this will lead to new insights over time. We will definitely need to include more Voynich-contemporary sources, currently the selection is leaning late.
I filled in the missing squares.
I also adjusted the date for PAL GERM 298: the Zodiac sequence is earlier than the rest. Going by overall appearance, I think this is the best Virgo we've looked at so far.
By the way, Marco already flagged the Zodiac of this MS as the most relevant in 2016: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
He wrote:
Quote:This manuscript from South Germany was found by Darren Worley, following a post by Ellie Velinska discussing a similar manuscript (dead link).
Is it known what this similar MS was? -
RE: [Zodiac Rating] VIRGO
DG97EEB > 09-07-2026, 03:59 PM
(09-07-2026, 03:31 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.By the way, Marco already flagged the Zodiac of this MS as the most relevant in 2016: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
He wrote:
Quote:This manuscript from South Germany was found by Darren Worley, following a post by Ellie Velinska discussing a similar manuscript (dead link).
Is it known what this similar MS was?
Ellie Velinska discussed a manuscript that Darren Worley found to be similar to the Voynich Manuscript's zodiac pages. Specifically, Velinska's discussion of Cod. Pal. Germ. 148 led Worley to discover Cod. Pal. Germ. 298, a South German manuscript from the first half of the 15th century that contains zodiac signs and shows a 70% match with the Voynich Manuscript's zodiac cycle. [3][19] Velinska also proposed The Hague MMW 10, A, 11 as a similar manuscript, noting its imagery of naked people in a circle. [8] Marco Ponzi further highlighted a parallel posted by Velinska as an excellent match for the costume of the Sagittarius crossbowman in the Voynich Manuscript. [10]
Sources:
[3] The VM Zodiac as a pictorial cycle: a comparative analysis (by Marco Ponzi) — You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
[8] Comparing Voynich Nymphs to other Sources — You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
[10] You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Zodiac and Sagittarius page - Marco Ponzi & Darren Worley — You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
[19] You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Zodiac and Sagittarius page - Marco Ponzi & Darren Worley — You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Edit: I've not checked those shelf marks but the 1656 page from Stephen is extremely rich -
RE: [Zodiac Rating] VIRGO
eggyk > 09-07-2026, 05:09 PM
(09-07-2026, 03:59 PM)DG97EEB Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Ellie Velinska discussed a manuscript that Darren Worley found to be similar to the Voynich Manuscript's zodiac pages. Specifically, Velinska's discussion of Cod. Pal. Germ. 148 led Worley to discover Cod. Pal. Germ. 298, a South German manuscript from the first half of the 15th century that contains zodiac signs and shows a 70% match with the Voynich Manuscript's zodiac cycle.
It's funny, actually, because out of the two zodiac symbols that have been rated from that manuscript (virgo+taurus so far) both are a 7/10 score. It's good that even though we're going through this from a different angle, it is already corroborating previous work!
Hopefully as we go along we'll keep popping into these references and confirming more of them, too. Maybe even find connections that were missed. -
RE: [Zodiac Rating] VIRGO
Koen G > 09-07-2026, 09:41 PM
(09-07-2026, 03:59 PM)DG97EEB Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
I did some quick searching with ctrl-f, but wasn't able to find the confirmation of this, though it may surely be correct. Either way, it sounds like Velinska's MS wasn't equally relevant itself, but it served as a pointer to the other one. So it doesn't matter all that much.
I think I found out why the Virgo type we are looking for is often found with Planets, specifically Venus. Check Lippincott's pdf here, and scroll all the way down to p. 124-126. Virgo with Venus is labelled "fall", so we get a wingless, down to earth type, providing more overlap with the VM Virgo. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
The rating system is up and running. Have a look: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
And do let us know if you know of any good Virgos that are missing! -
RE: [Zodiac Rating] VIRGO
eggyk > 09-07-2026, 11:26 PM
(09-07-2026, 09:54 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.We don't have this one, right? You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
She should probably get an extra half point for that hat, it doesn't get much better than that.
Indeed, we did not.
But wow. That's a really close virgo! Highest scoring one so far, even without the 1.5 for the (stuffed roll escoffion?) hat. -
RE: [Zodiac Rating] VIRGO
R. Sale > 10-07-2026, 12:26 AM
Nice work! You've raised the bar again.
Please see Post #6 and the first reference to the prior thread and Post #18. This is the "Virgo of Prague". -
RE: [Zodiac Rating] VIRGO
DG97EEB > 10-07-2026, 06:17 AM
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RE: [Zodiac Rating] VIRGO
Koen G > 10-07-2026, 10:10 AM
(09-07-2026, 11:26 PM)eggyk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.But wow. That's a really close virgo! Highest scoring one so far, even without the 1.5 for the (stuffed roll escoffion?) hat.
Nice!
I did add a half point for the trailing dress, because of what Marco pointed out here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
--> this is a rare case where the dress fills out the edge of the medallion.
But I changed "hair" to 0.5 because she technically has a long tail while the VM Virgo doesn't.
By the way, one of my more speculative ideas is that the VM painter often tried to imitate painting styles they saw in their examples but they did it so badly that we can't understand what's going on. See the blue streaks along the garment: