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Elephant in the Room Solution Considerations
- Elephant in the Room Solution Considerations
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RE: Elephant in the Room Solution Considerations
MHTamdgidi_(Behrooz) > Yesterday, 03:48 AM
(Yesterday, 02:37 AM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.High agreement
@ Aga Tentakulus. Thanks. Vow, completely different than those others have suggested. When you say "high agreement" does that mean the current information on ReneZ page and others I had linked (like the page of Koen G. thread) are now outdated? I wonder what others think, but I assume you are saying now there is now high agreement that these are most likely the plants depicted on those pages. I did not see these names elsewhere, but perhaps did not search enough, or just missed them given the technical names.
For your choice for f49v, I am not seeing any long stem at all in your photos, so I am not sure about that one myself. But I see the resemblance to some degree for f65v, though there are so many choices. I had clipped some photos for the Water Lily and Chamomile versions that seemed also compatible (below).
I will study your solutions more carefully, and perhaps other may also make their opinion known, but just wanted to thank you for sharing these.
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RE: Elephant in the Room Solution Considerations
ReneZ > Yesterday, 07:08 AM
From my point of view, there is no such thing as agreement or concensus about the plant ID's, with very few exceptions (two or three it seems).
There are numerous lists by different people. Most of these are incomplete, and many of the people who made these lists have (had) no relevant background knowledge.
The source I put online is a collection of tentative ID's by Ethel Voynich (ELV) and by Th.Petersen, where the latter also seems to have drawn from O'Neal and Holm (both botanists). ELV also had consulted others but the record is not complete. More tentative ID's by ELV's were transcribed by Koen and Marco, and still more have not yet been transcribed.
Other lists can be found here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Forum user @Aga Tentakulus has numerous identifications in a facebook account. A few have been posted in this forum.
I would be most interested if these could be put together somewhere, because they are well explained (in terms of what matches, what not, and why). But that is of course up to him. -
RE: Elephant in the Room Solution Considerations
Aga Tentakulus > Yesterday, 07:50 AM
(Yesterday, 07:08 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Forum user @Aga Tentakulus has numerous identifications in a facebook account. A few have been posted in this forum.
I would be most interested if these could be put together somewhere, because they are well explained (in terms of what matches, what not, and why). But that is of course up to him.
Actually, the plan was to make it accessible here. I also exchanged several emails with David Jackson about this.
The procedure:
How long I've been working on the Voynich manuscript is so hard to say. But of course the television broadcast on ORF 2009 was the reason why I had to deal intensively with the VM.
I published my first works at Wiki Voynich Lexikon/de. My work at that time was mainly about plants. Unfortunately everything was deleted.
Then I went on to the page of Elias Schwerdtfeger ( page will be deleted ) and also Klaus Schmeh, which brought me an article at Focus. ( Cryptology )
To keep the data public, I have placed it on Facebook.
At the same time I wrote about my research with Prof. Bax and Nick Pelling.
In the attachment I put another file. Plants revised, but not yet published.
Currently I am working on the origin of the VM, similar to the plant file.
The plant database is too big, but I'll think of something.
DJ :
If you have a large yet useful file that you want to share, you can send it to me and I'll put it on the forum for you.
And since then, it has ended up here and hasn't moved on.
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RE: Elephant in the Room Solution Considerations
ReneZ > Yesterday, 09:22 AM
I could host the plant ID's at my site, optionally also translated to English. If you want... -
RE: Elephant in the Room Solution Considerations
Aga Tentakulus > Yesterday, 01:19 PM
@Rene
You are welcome to do so. -
RE: Elephant in the Room Solution Considerations
Aga Tentakulus > Yesterday, 02:29 PM
It should perhaps be noted that variants such as those in the example are not available, as I have completed the work. -
RE: Elephant in the Room Solution Considerations
Doireannjane > Yesterday, 04:59 PM
Hello there, I’d like to respond to @MHTamgdidi_(Behrooz) So I’ve had very similar thoughts.
I wrote weeks ago about magnification of plants and roots in my Substack (totally free/public) and thoroughly detail my theory in videos and in conversations on TT and YT. Here is an article I wrote using the same language:
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I recently posted about 49v and 65v as well in case this helps! The identifications in certain communities tend to be assumption based or relying purely on visual, my identifications however are all evidence and text based. Let me know if you have questions on other plants. -
RE: Elephant in the Room Solution Considerations
MHTamdgidi_(Behrooz) > Yesterday, 07:13 PM
(Yesterday, 04:59 PM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hello there, I’d like to respond to @MHTamgdidi_(Behrooz) So I’ve had very similar thoughts.
I wrote weeks ago about magnification of plants and roots in my Substack (totally free/public) and thoroughly detail my theory in videos and in conversations on TT and YT. Here is an article I wrote using the same language:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I recently posted about 49v and 65v as well in case this helps! The identifications in certain communities tend to be assumption based or relying purely on visual, my identifications however are all evidence and text based. Let me know if you have questions on other plants.
@ Aga Tentakulus, @ReneZ, and @ Koen G., @ Doireannjane, thanks much for your feedbacks and thoughts that I find very helpful and I am studying them, so will get back to you on those later.
@Doireannjane, while I am not yet sure about the Irish language proposal, I am open to your considerations, since I have found a lot of times even differences can open new windows to seeing things. I just watched another one of your videos on Youtube (not entirely, but most of it, will watch what you linked later), and it seems the old Celtic letters are bit labored to make comparison with the VM letters. I am inclined toward finding easier solutions than complicating things more, but even Latin abbreviation symbols can be used for other languages.
I think you are so imaginative and critically minded (especially as expressed toward the end of your Toutube interview) that it takes you to many possible interpretations and that is a good thing, even though it may prove tentative, yet open alternative interpretations.
What I am most impressed is about your historical identifications of the peoples you are considering, and however Chrisine de Pizan comes into the picture (not sure entirely but can fit in many ways into a broader picture that I have been thinking about as well), one of the pics you were commenting on is very similar to the “list” on those two VM plant related pages You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. for You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (in your interview video it appears on 1:34:38, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.).
Can you elaborate about what you have found about why they made those lettered column lists? In this case the book is readable so others can also find out why it was done. I am copying below from a clip from your vid, so all can see and you can hopefully explain more.
Also, can you link the posts you mentioned about 49v and 65v? Thanks.
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RE: Elephant in the Room Solution Considerations
Doireannjane > Yesterday, 07:47 PM
Hi you’re looking at old videos! I’ve made a lot more progress in terms of the “who”. As far as Irish goes, it isn’t a proposal anymore exactly, as it’s already been linguistically demonstrated. I’m considered a leading expert currently. Here are some of my articles: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.