- Options
- Login
- Desktop Style
Options
f72v1 - Crown style
- f72v1 - Crown style
-
f72v1 - Crown style
Bluetoes101 > Yesterday, 11:43 PM
"When do we first see this sort of crown?"
The crown is defined by two parts,
- The "zigzag" lower section referred to as a "eastern/ancient crown".
- The arch above, topped with a cross - Imperial/Christian symbolism.
This combination of the two parts might be traced to Rudolf IV (House of Habsburg).
Rudolf IV wanted to create a new rank, the "Archduke" (archidux). To do this he forged documents, and commissioned likenesses of himself as the "Archduke" in the "Archducal hat" to support the claim. The combination of the two styles of the archducal hat is thought to be unique for the time and that Rudolf may have got the idea for the lower part from old coins. Rudolf was (self appointed) Archduke 1358-1365, the image is thought to be 1360-1365, the Archducal hat is thought to be a fabrication. The artist had some issues with the arch, but otherwise is meant to be a true to life depiction. The eyes are due to facial palsy, the choice to include this might speak to the authenticity the image was meant to show.
1359–1363 (Obviously now very worn)
With the imperial crown lost to the Habsburgs due to the assassination of Rudolf's grandfather and the Habsburgs being left out of the order of the golden bull by Emperor Charles IV.
It is not hard to see what the aim of this new insignia Rudolf had created was, by hook or by crook he wanted to raise his perceived importance on the political map.
There are also other signs of this in below quote from WIKI, also his want to not be outdone by Charles IV.
"Rudolf extended St. Stephen's Cathedral, with the construction of its gothic nave being started under Rudolf's rule. The construction efforts can be seen as an attempt to compete with St. Vitus Cathedral in Prague.
Rudolf had himself and his wife depicted on a cenotaph at the cathedral's entrance. Similarly, by founding the University of Vienna in 1365, Rudolf sought to match Charles IV's founding of the Charles University of Prague in 1348.
Still known as Alma Mater Rudolphina today, the University of Vienna is the oldest continuously operating university in the German-speaking world. However, a faculty of theology, which was considered crucial for a university at that time,
was not established until 1385, twenty years after Rudolf's death."
Once Rudolf's documents were found to be forgeries by Charles IV, he was commanded to stop using the insignias and titles he created for himself, the response seems to have been "yeah, whatever.." as he didn't stop and continued to make more. A few years later Rudolf seems to have been paranoid with his imminent death (in his early 20's), then he died suddenly in Milan. Eventually the fruits of Rudolf's labours were realised however when "Ernest I" declared himself "Archduke" in 1414 and had an archducal hat made.
Later on Frederick III, Holy Roman Emperor (House of Habsburg) and Archduke of Austria 1457–1493 decided to instate all the powers granted by the forged documents and lay the foundations for the Habsburg monarchy.
Rudolf's story is an interesting read. Points I touched on here as well as some details on the forged documents can be found here - You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
As some may know he is thought to be responsible for a cipher - You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I just wanted to touch on some of the history as I think it shows that this insignia was not "some random crown design", but one with a purpose and historical relevance.
This is not to say the VM crown is this crown, but the design seems to originate with Rudolf and the years 1358-1365.
An issue may be the lack of details on the arch, however this image from Zbraslav Chronicle (14C) shows,
Top left - You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Top centre - You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Top right - You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Bottom left - You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Bottom centre - You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Bottom right - You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
As you can see all the arch's are plain with a cross on top.
Charles IV - Top right, has his crowns displayed here - You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
none of them have a plain arch, so the drawer decided to omit details or they just had an "imperial crown" that they drew (seems more likely).
It might be the VM drawer also drew a "crown" and added the arch and cross on top and the zig-zag design + arch is not based on anything we can pull any meaning from.
.. but that's not as fun to speculate about!
Here are some other images of later Archdukes of Austria (House of Habsburg) that I thought showed a similar style.
Sigismund, Archduke of Austria 1477-1496
"A half guldengroschen from 1484."
Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor, Archduke of Austria 1519–1521
Created: 1521
Some that we still have
A newer statue of Rudolf - 1885
-
RE: f72v1 - Crown style
Jorge_Stolfi > Today, 12:49 AM
(Yesterday, 11:43 PM)Bluetoes101 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."When do we first see this sort of crown?"
As I wrote before, I believe that this crown was a rather late addition, by the "Boobs Retracer". I suppose that he drew an imperial crown as he knew it.
Too bad that that this identification does not give any restrictions on the date of that drawing. But I think it does give some clues as to where the Boobs Retracer lived at the time.
Apparently not in Italy or France, since the royalty there wore visibly different styles of crown.
It the date of the drawing is close to the 1400s, I suppose it limits the place to Austria and vicinity. But from the 1500s on, the candidate areas (the Holy Roman Empire) are much wider, including Germany, Spain, Southern Italy, and more. Is that correct?
Was that style of crown adopted by other dynasties, besides the Habsburgs?
All the best, --stolfi -
RE: f72v1 - Crown style
Ruby Novacna > 3 hours ago
The image of Charles V also features the eagle and the golden fleece, which also appear in the manuscript.