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+--- Thread: f72v1 - Crown style (/thread-5043.html)
f72v1 - Crown style - Bluetoes101 - 12-11-2025
"When do we first see this sort of crown?"
The crown is defined by two parts,
- The "zigzag" lower section referred to as a "eastern/ancient crown".
- The arch above, topped with a cross - Imperial/Christian symbolism.
This combination of the two parts might be traced to Rudolf IV (House of Habsburg).
Rudolf IV wanted to create a new rank, the "Archduke" (archidux). To do this he forged documents, and commissioned likenesses of himself as the "Archduke" in the "Archducal hat" to support the claim. The combination of the two styles of the archducal hat is thought to be unique for the time and that Rudolf may have got the idea for the lower part from old coins. Rudolf was (self appointed) Archduke 1358-1365, the image is thought to be 1360-1365, the Archducal hat is thought to be a fabrication. The artist had some issues with the arch, but otherwise is meant to be a true to life depiction. The eyes are due to facial palsy, the choice to include this might speak to the authenticity the image was meant to show.
1359–1363 (Obviously now very worn)
With the imperial crown lost to the Habsburgs due to the assassination of Rudolf's grandfather and the Habsburgs being left out of the order of the golden bull by Emperor Charles IV.
It is not hard to see what the aim of this new insignia Rudolf had created was, by hook or by crook he wanted to raise his perceived importance on the political map.
There are also other signs of this in below quote from WIKI, also his want to not be outdone by Charles IV.
"Rudolf extended St. Stephen's Cathedral, with the construction of its gothic nave being started under Rudolf's rule. The construction efforts can be seen as an attempt to compete with St. Vitus Cathedral in Prague.
Rudolf had himself and his wife depicted on a cenotaph at the cathedral's entrance. Similarly, by founding the University of Vienna in 1365, Rudolf sought to match Charles IV's founding of the Charles University of Prague in 1348.
Still known as Alma Mater Rudolphina today, the University of Vienna is the oldest continuously operating university in the German-speaking world. However, a faculty of theology, which was considered crucial for a university at that time,
was not established until 1385, twenty years after Rudolf's death."
Once Rudolf's documents were found to be forgeries by Charles IV, he was commanded to stop using the insignias and titles he created for himself, the response seems to have been "yeah, whatever.." as he didn't stop and continued to make more. A few years later Rudolf seems to have been paranoid with his imminent death (in his early 20's), then he died suddenly in Milan. Eventually the fruits of Rudolf's labours were realised however when "Ernest I" declared himself "Archduke" in 1414 and had an archducal hat made.
Later on Frederick III, Holy Roman Emperor (House of Habsburg) and Archduke of Austria 1457–1493 decided to instate all the powers granted by the forged documents and lay the foundations for the Habsburg monarchy.
Rudolf's story is an interesting read. Points I touched on here as well as some details on the forged documents can be found here - You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
As some may know he is thought to be responsible for a cipher - You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I just wanted to touch on some of the history as I think it shows that this insignia was not "some random crown design", but one with a purpose and historical relevance.
This is not to say the VM crown is this crown, but the design seems to originate with Rudolf and the years 1358-1365.
An issue may be the lack of details on the arch, however this image from Zbraslav Chronicle (14C) shows,
Top left - You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Top centre - You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Top right - You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Bottom left - You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Bottom centre - You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
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As you can see all the arch's are plain with a cross on top.
Charles IV - Top right, has his crowns displayed here - You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
none of them have a plain arch, so the drawer decided to omit details or they just had an "imperial crown" that they drew (seems more likely).
It might be the VM drawer also drew a "crown" and added the arch and cross on top and the zig-zag design + arch is not based on anything we can pull any meaning from.
.. but that's not as fun to speculate about!
Here are some other images of later Archdukes of Austria (House of Habsburg) that I thought showed a similar style.
Sigismund, Archduke of Austria 1477-1496
"A half guldengroschen from 1484."
Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor, Archduke of Austria 1519–1521
Created: 1521
Some that we still have
A newer statue of Rudolf - 1885
RE: f72v1 - Crown style - Jorge_Stolfi - 13-11-2025
(12-11-2025, 11:43 PM)Bluetoes101 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."When do we first see this sort of crown?"
As I wrote before, I believe that this crown was a rather late addition, by the "Boobs Retracer". I suppose that he drew an imperial crown as he knew it.
Too bad that that this identification does not give any restrictions on the date of that drawing. But I think it does give some clues as to where the Boobs Retracer lived at the time.
Apparently not in Italy or France, since the royalty there wore visibly different styles of crown.
It the date of the drawing is close to the 1400s, I suppose it limits the place to Austria and vicinity. But from the 1500s on, the candidate areas (the Holy Roman Empire) are much wider, including Germany, Spain, Southern Italy, and more. Is that correct?
Was that style of crown adopted by other dynasties, besides the Habsburgs?
All the best, --stolfi
RE: f72v1 - Crown style - RobGea - 13-11-2025
Some related crown stuff here:
The Voynich Ninja > Voynich Research > Imagery > The crowns of the Zodiac
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RE: f72v1 - Crown style - Ruby Novacna - 13-11-2025
The image of Charles V also features the eagle and the golden fleece, which also appear in the manuscript.
RE: f72v1 - Crown style - Bluetoes101 - 13-11-2025
It all gets a bit messy for me as you look forwards, for example Ferdinand I, Holy Roman Emperor (House of Habsburg) was;
Archduke of Austria
1521–1564
King in Germany
1531–1564
Holy Roman Emperor
1558–1564
King of Hungary and Croatia
1526–1564
King of Bohemia
1526–1564
So yeah, I think it's fair to say 1500+ things get hard to stick a pin in "where".
I could not find other reliable examples of the combination of the two parts that make up this crown being used elsewhere, but others might.
Here is an interesting thing I just noticed. I found it fairly late on while researching. It said it was from 1766 on another site and I already had enough "modern" examples.
But I think it may have solved why I couldn't find what happened to the "Ernest I" Archducal hat.. it seems this might be it, just modified in 1766 to look as it does now(?).
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Ducal hat
-around 1400
Official hat of the Dukes of Styria
The Duke's hat did not take on its present compact shape until 1766.
The prongs made of profiled metal strips with a stamped diamond pattern and
quatrefoil motif as well as the bow with crabs date from the time of Duke Ernst the Iron (1377-1424),
father of the later Emperor Frederick III. Instead of the high ermine brim, only the triangles of the prongs
were probably originally lined with fur.
[Edit]
Some info from wiki - The ducal hat (German: Herzogshut) of the Duchy of Styria is a jagged crown made out of silver-gilt.
It was refashioned with pearls and enameled in 1766. It was kept in Vienna until 1790, when the Styrian Estates asked for it to be returned.
In the 19th century, it was refitted again. The ducal hat is about 20.5 cm high, and has a diameter of 20 cm.
It is kept today at the Landesmuseum Joanneum (Joanneum National Museum) in Graz, Styria, Austria.
RE: f72v1 - Crown style - Koen G - 13-11-2025
It would be interesting to see this kind of crown in manuscript art, but the trefoil type is so dominant. It looks like for most 15th century manuscript artists, a crown was something with trefoils topping the spikes. This while the VM artist seems to have made an explicit effort to render the sides of the spikes as "uneven", with wiggly lines.
RE: f72v1 - Crown style - Bluetoes101 - 13-11-2025
They are not the easiest to find, I'll see if I can find better, but here is one
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(I didn't know it was referred to as this.. bold)
VIENNA: IMPERIAL RIVALRY AND HABSBURG AMBITION
Containing the prayers for the Feast of Corpus Christi, this manuscript was presented to Duke William of Habsburg shortly after his 1401 marriage to the Neapolitan princess Joanna of Anjou, whose arms appear at the center of the frontispiece’s lower register. Above, the kneeling duke, who wears a distinctive Rudolphine crown, adores the body of Christ in the facing initial. The attendant behind him is perhaps his privy notary, Leonhard Stubier (d. 1446), who may have commissioned the manuscript as a gift. Likely master and assistant, the book’s two artists worked in a cosmopolitan, courtly style characterized by conspicuous richness. The verdant meadow in which the duke kneels looks more like a luxurious millefleur tapestry than an inhabitable space.
Thomas Aquinas (1225–1274)
Office for the Feast of Corpus Christi, in Latin
Illuminated by Nicholas of Brno and the Lyra Master for Duke William of Habsburg (1370–1406)
Austria, Vienna, ca. 1403–6
The Morgan Library & Museum, MS M.853, fols. 1v–2r
Gift of Louis M. Rabinowitz, 1951
RE: f72v1 - Crown style - R. Sale - 13-11-2025
*Trefoils!* That's the word I was needing. Vocabulary is so important. There are also fleur-de-lis and crosses along with "teeth" that rise above the band, all under the generic term 'palisades', I believe.
The first matter is historical reference. The Eastern crown with imperial topping certainly carries some historical connections and constraints.
The second matter is how well the VMs illustration was rendered. The darker ink is presumed to be a later application. Perhaps 20 years later, the original artist made these corrections and additions in an old and infirm health and a bit of a shaky hand. This way there would be some implied meaning in the identity of the nymph. If the crown is a century later and randomly placed by an uninformed 'Retoucher', then it is hardly more than graffiti.
PS: Just to state the obvious. That is the Austrian heraldic insignia.
The crown is good, it's the identity of the woman.