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Voynich through Phonetic Irish

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Voynich through Phonetic Irish
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish

oshfdk > 14-11-2025, 05:23 PM

(14-11-2025, 04:54 PM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.No. Nothing about that is cherry picking. The words sound similar and are each spelled a variant. I typed in Teannglann TA. There is Tae and there is Tá. Listen to the dialects. There is absolutely not one single thing that is cherry picking about what I am doing.

No matter what you call it, this is a faulty methodology for translating. If you cannot properly reconstruct a word based on how its written, but you have to use the context to pick the right interpretation, then any claims about "reasonable sentences" or "precise identification" are irrelevant. These sentences are built by trial and error brick by brick to make them look plausible. They are not translated, they are designed. And they look (somewhat) reasonable because they are designed to look reasonable. Basically you are writing a book of your own creation, the Voynich Manuscript here is just the canvas or a creativity booster, as far as I can tell.
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish

Doireannjane > 14-11-2025, 05:28 PM

(14-11-2025, 05:23 PM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(14-11-2025, 04:54 PM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.No. Nothing about that is cherry picking. The words sound similar and are each spelled a variant. I typed in Teannglann TA. There is Tae and there is Tá. Listen to the dialects. There is absolutely not one single thing that is cherry picking about what I am doing.

No matter what you call it, this is a faulty methodology for translating. If you cannot properly reconstruct a word based on how its written, but you have to use the context to pick the right interpretation, then any claims about "reasonable sentences" or "precise identification" are irrelevant. These sentences are built by trial and error brick by brick to make them look plausible. They are not translated, they are designed. And they look (somewhat) reasonable because they are designed to look reasonable. Basically you are writing a book of your own creation, the Voynich Manuscript here is just the canvas or a creativity booster, as far as I can tell.

Can you please explain all of the correct plant and root identification, that even corrects plant experts.

My methodology is not faulty, it is NECESSARY for this particular text given the circumstances of the history of the language it is written in and I can prove that.
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish

Doireannjane > 14-11-2025, 05:36 PM

Edith has Rampion. I have identified: Irish Heath.
Examine the difference in leaves. Irish Heath has a succulent type shorter leaf which is closer to what is on 4v.

fraoch1, m. (gs. -oigh). 1. Heather. ~ bán, white heather. ~ camógach, Mediterranean heather. ~ cloigíneach, fireann, Lochlannach, bell-heather. ~ (coitianta), ~ mór, Scotch heather, ling. ~ naoscaí, cross-leaved heath. Ligean do rud dul sa fhraoch ort, to let oneself become confused about sth. Spáráil na circe fraoigh ar an bh~, ‘the grouse sparing the heather’, unnecessary frugality. S.a. CEARC 1(b), DALLÓG 2(a), LUCH 1. 2. Heath, moor. (Var: f, gs. fraoighe)

ather(n.)

(14-11-2025, 05:36 PM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Edith has Rampion. I have identified: Irish Heath.
Examine the difference in leaves. Irish Heath has a succulent type shorter leaf which is closer to what is on 4v.

fraoch1, m. (gs. -oigh). 1. Heather. ~ bán, white heather. ~ camógach, Mediterranean heather. ~ cloigíneach, fireann, Lochlannach, bell-heather. ~ (coitianta), ~ mór, Scotch heather, ling. ~ naoscaí, cross-leaved heath. Ligean do rud dul sa fhraoch ort, to let oneself become confused about sth. Spáráil na circe fraoigh ar an bh~, ‘the grouse sparing the heather’, unnecessary frugality. S.a. CEARC 1(b), DALLÓG 2(a), LUCH 1. 2. Heath, moor. (Var: f, gs. fraoighe)

ather(n.)
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish

oshfdk > 14-11-2025, 05:53 PM

(14-11-2025, 05:28 PM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Can you please explain all of the correct plant and root identification, that even corrects plant experts.

Plants in the MS are likely chimeric and certainly include many unrealistic details. They could be overly schematic or even imaginary, and there are more than a hundred plants in the MS, if I'm not mistaken. There are not that many possible shapes and arrangements, so it's not surprising that you have found some similarities to some real life plants. Especially if the process was the same trial and error as with tea/resin above.

(14-11-2025, 05:28 PM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.My methodology is not faulty, it is NECESSARY for this particular text given the circumstances of the history of the language it is written in and I can prove that.

If you can prove it, it would be very helpful. Otherwise the discussion seems stuck. I'm not sure about the others, but I haven't seen any good supporting arguments for your solution so far.
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish

igajkgko > 14-11-2025, 05:55 PM

(14-11-2025, 05:28 PM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Can you please explain all of the correct plant and root identification, that even corrects plant experts.

Can you explain all the non-irish labels found in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. on page 9 (231) and forward? They seem to make sense in context. The translation claims to use a "strict and disciplined methodology".
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish

Doireannjane > 14-11-2025, 05:56 PM

(14-11-2025, 05:36 PM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Edith has Rampion. I have identified: Irish Heath.
Examine the difference in leaves. Irish Heath has a succulent type shorter leaf which is closer to what is on 4v.

fraoch1, m. (gs. -oigh). 1. Heather. ~ bán, white heather. ~ camógach, Mediterranean heather. ~ cloigíneach, fireann, Lochlannach, bell-heather. ~ (coitianta), ~ mór, Scotch heather, ling. ~ naoscaí, cross-leaved heath. Ligean do rud dul sa fhraoch ort, to let oneself become confused about sth. Spáráil na circe fraoigh ar an bh~, ‘the grouse sparing the heather’, unnecessary frugality. S.a. CEARC 1(b), DALLÓG 2(a), LUCH 1. 2. Heath, moor. (Var: f, gs. fraoighe)

ather(n.)

(14-11-2025, 05:36 PM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Edith has Rampion. I have identified: Irish Heath.
Examine the difference in leaves. Irish Heath has a succulent type shorter leaf which is closer to what is on 4v.

fraoch1, m. (gs. -oigh). 1. Heather. ~ bán, white heather. ~ camógach, Mediterranean heather. ~ cloigíneach, fireann, Lochlannach, bell-heather. ~ (coitianta), ~ mór, Scotch heather, ling. ~ naoscaí, cross-leaved heath. Ligean do rud dul sa fhraoch ort, to let oneself become confused about sth. Spáráil na circe fraoigh ar an bh~, ‘the grouse sparing the heather’, unnecessary frugality. S.a. CEARC 1(b), DALLÓG 2(a), LUCH 1. 2. Heath, moor. (Var: f, gs. fraoighe)

ather(n.)

Or Mediterranean Heather. Notice the stamen(?)

(14-11-2025, 05:56 PM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(14-11-2025, 05:36 PM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Edith has Rampion. I have identified: Irish Heath.
Examine the difference in leaves. Irish Heath has a succulent type shorter leaf which is closer to what is on 4v.

fraoch1, m. (gs. -oigh). 1. Heather. ~ bán, white heather. ~ camógach, Mediterranean heather. ~ cloigíneach, fireann, Lochlannach, bell-heather. ~ (coitianta), ~ mór, Scotch heather, ling. ~ naoscaí, cross-leaved heath. Ligean do rud dul sa fhraoch ort, to let oneself become confused about sth. Spáráil na circe fraoigh ar an bh~, ‘the grouse sparing the heather’, unnecessary frugality. S.a. CEARC 1(b), DALLÓG 2(a), LUCH 1. 2. Heath, moor. (Var: f, gs. fraoighe)

ather(n.)

(14-11-2025, 05:36 PM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Edith has Rampion. I have identified: Irish Heath.
Examine the difference in leaves. Irish Heath has a succulent type shorter leaf which is closer to what is on 4v.

fraoch1, m. (gs. -oigh). 1. Heather. ~ bán, white heather. ~ camógach, Mediterranean heather. ~ cloigíneach, fireann, Lochlannach, bell-heather. ~ (coitianta), ~ mór, Scotch heather, ling. ~ naoscaí, cross-leaved heath. Ligean do rud dul sa fhraoch ort, to let oneself become confused about sth. Spáráil na circe fraoigh ar an bh~, ‘the grouse sparing the heather’, unnecessary frugality. S.a. CEARC 1(b), DALLÓG 2(a), LUCH 1. 2. Heath, moor. (Var: f, gs. fraoighe)

ather(n.)

Or Mediterranean Heather. Notice the stamen(?)
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish

Doireannjane > 14-11-2025, 06:15 PM

(14-11-2025, 05:55 PM)igajkgko Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(14-11-2025, 05:28 PM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Can you please explain all of the correct plant and root identification, that even corrects plant experts.

Can you explain all the non-irish labels found in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. on page 9 (231) and forward? They seem to make sense in context. The translation claims to use a "strict and disciplined methodology".

So I would really want to know when this was actually published. You can find out through meta-data. Not to sound paranoid but Gerard Cheshire and/or David Manners have regularly altered an Ancient Origins article that was published in 2019 without including the date of those alterations and what exactly was altered. It now includes some of my findings (the other articles about Gerard Cheshire from this time do not include these details, this has been documented on my end).

As I said in my TikTok from weeks ago, some of my findings for the astrology section are incomplete because I suspect they are Latin adjacent.

I will take a look at what I have and send it over with the words/images lined up.
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish

Doireannjane > 14-11-2025, 06:20 PM

I will also say in regards to time, I do have July possibly referenced on 10v and 116r.
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish

Jorge_Stolfi > 14-11-2025, 06:26 PM

(14-11-2025, 05:14 PM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.because time is not accounted for in what I've translated so far.

But my request is independent of what is in the VMS. Forget the VMS for a moment. It is a question about the version/dialect of the Irish language that the Author would have used. How would you translate that sentence into that language, and how would it be spelled in the Voynichese script?

The spelling is supposed to be phonetic, so you should be able to transcribe any Irish sentence with it.

I care most about the spelling part, so it is OK if you use a version of Irish that is not historically plausible. Even modern Irish would do, if the phonetics is similar enough.

Thank you, and all the best, --stolfi
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish

Doireannjane > 14-11-2025, 06:36 PM

(14-11-2025, 06:15 PM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(14-11-2025, 05:55 PM)igajkgko Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(14-11-2025, 05:28 PM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Can you please explain all of the correct plant and root identification, that even corrects plant experts.

Can you explain all the non-irish labels found in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. on page 9 (231) and forward? They seem to make sense in context. The translation claims to use a "strict and disciplined methodology".

So I would really want to know when this was actually published. You can find out through meta-data. Not to sound paranoid but Gerard Cheshire and/or David Manners have regularly altered an Ancient Origins article that was published in 2019 without including the date of those alterations and what exactly was altered. It now includes some of my findings (the other articles about Gerard Cheshire from this time do not include these details, this has been documented on my end).

As I said in my TikTok from weeks ago, some of my findings for the astrology section are incomplete because I suspect they are Latin adjacent.

I will take a look at what I have and send it over with the words/images lined up.

Here's one labeled compared to his (notice faces):

First:
re- + from (meaning "from after", "from later", "from second")
OR
form of
to exist
bí3, substantive v. (pres: tá, aut. táthar, rel. atá, rel. aut. atáthar, neg. níl, aut. níltear, dep. bhfuil, aut. bhfuiltear; pres. hab: bíonn, aut. bítear; p: bhí, aut. bhíothas, dep. raibh, dep. aut. rabhthas; p. hab: bhíodh, aut. bhítí; fut: beidh, aut. beifear, rel. bheas; cond: bheadh, aut. bheifí; pres. subj:raibh, aut. rabhthar; vn. bheith. S.a. BEITE1). Be. 1. Exist.

Second:
ga1, m. (gs. ~, pl. ~thanna). 1. Spear, dart.
+from

OR

gol, m. (gs. goil). 1. vn. of GOIL1. 2. Weeping, crying. Racht goil a chur díot, to have a fit of crying. Bhris a ~ uirthi, she burst into tears. Ní fada óna ghol a gháire, his moods change rapidly. (Var: gs. ~a1)
+from

Third:
(a)fócht, v.t. & i. (vn. ~adh m). Lit: Ask, inquire.
abacht, f. (gs. ~a). Abbacy.
Old English abbod "abbot," from Latin abbatem (nominative abbas), from Greek abbas, from Aramaic (Semitic) abba, title of honor, literally "the father, my father," emphatic state of abh "father." Spelling with -t is a Middle English Latinization. Originally a title given to any monk, later limited to the head of a monastery. The use as a surname is perhaps ironic or a nickname. The Latin fem. abbatissa is root of abbess. Related: Abbacy; abbatial; abbotship.

(14-11-2025, 06:26 PM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(14-11-2025, 05:14 PM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.because time is not accounted for in what I've translated so far.

But my request is independent of what is in the VMS. Forget the VMS for a moment. It is a question about the version/dialect of the Irish language that the Author would have used. How would you translate that sentence into that language, and how would it be spelled in the Voynichese script?

The spelling is supposed to be phonetic, so you should be able to transcribe any Irish sentence with it.

I care most about the spelling part, so it is OK if you use a version of Irish that is not historically plausible. Even modern Irish would do, if the phonetics is similar enough.

Thank you, and all the best, --stolfi

Ah ok. Let me see, I'll send the second sentence.
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Voynich through Phonetic Irish

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RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish

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