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Month names collection / metastudy
- Month names collection / metastudy
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RE: Month names collection / metastudy
eggyk > 2 hours ago
(Yesterday, 11:49 PM)Bernd Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Oswald Lieder (OVW)
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Reinfried von Braunschweig (RVBR)
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Der Schulmeister von Esslingen (SVE)
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Der heilige Georg (GRG)
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Flore und Blanscheflur (FLO)
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Minnereden Band 2 (MR2)
The above have been added, so far. This is a good line of searching by the way. For example, the 'Oswald von Wolkenstein' poem happens to be a couple of pages before a work listing all of the months, so that one search turned into two full sequences. (note that although they are the same work with the sameish sequence, some of the spelling varies between them)
(3 hours ago)Bernd Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Neither in his region nor time. He just diligently copied an older work - and its much more ancient language. To test this hypothesis, we'd have to look into the creation dates and places of the texts themselves to see if they correlate better with certain spelling variants of month names.
This is certainly at play, as copies of works tend to have similar spellings as eachother, but those copies of the same work do differ quite often. Considering we also have attested "aberel","abrill","abrell" as headers in calendars in the 15thC, it is probably the case that many of these dialectal forms persisted for a longer time. It's probably very similar to 'octembre'; it was more commonly seen in the 13th and 14th centuries, but was used in the 15th century.
(Yesterday, 11:49 PM)Bernd Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Virginal (VIR)
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dâ was von wurzen ein gesmac,
alsô abrelle und merze
waeren dâ mit voller bluot.
For the life of me I can't find this one. It's supposedly in these:
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An interesting one:
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Hans Zukunft, Das goldene Jahr (from your Minnereden Band 2 (MR2))
1450AD, Swabia
mertzen
abrellen
may
jonius
julius
ögst
september
/
/
Jonius for june
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RE: Month names collection / metastudy
Bernd > 1 hour ago
(2 hours ago)eggyk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Strange. But this is why it's so important to check each claim.(Yesterday, 11:49 PM)Bernd Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Virginal (VIR)
For the life of me I can't find this one. It's supposedly in these:
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dâ was von wurzen ein gesmac,
alsô abrelle und merze
waeren dâ mit voller bluot.
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If it helps, the exact location is You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., Stanza 437, Row 10
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437 1 Der Berner sprach" vil schoene magt,
2 du hâst gewalt: swaz dir behagt,
3 daz schrîp nâch dîme muote. "
4 diu maget gie dô al zehant,
5 dâ se ein getriuwen boten vant.
6 sî brâhte in zuo der huote
7 dâ der Berner inne lac.
8 dâ branten schoene kerzen,
9 dâ was von wurzen ein gesmac,
10 alsô abrelle und merze
11 waeren dâ mit voller bluot.
12 sî tete im dâ noch dienstes mê,
13 durch daz er waere baz gemuot.
438 1 Diu maget den boten niht erliez,
2 mit triuwen sî in sitzen hiez
3 und sprach vil wunnenclîche
4 " mîn sundervriunt vil tugenthaft,
5 du wirp mir eine botschaft,
6 wiltu sîn guotes rîche.
The reference says that the complete manuscripts are independent textual versions which stories differ significantly.
I checked MARS which yields a lot of entries, but unsurprisingly all of them deal with the planet or the god, not the month. -
RE: Month names collection / metastudy
eggyk > 1 hour ago
Yeah, i tried to find stanza 437 but couldn't. Looking for ögst might be a good lead. Every ögst has been an interesting manuscript so far. Brachet, Brachat, prachet, prachat tend to be interesting sequences too. Honestly, looking for sept,oct,nov,dec with re endings would also be interesting. Augst is crazy common, along with may, so it's the other months that are important.
Also:
(Yesterday, 11:49 PM)Bernd Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.ze ûz gândem aberellen.
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'in dem aberillen'
This is certainly why we check
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RE: Month names collection / metastudy
Koen G > 45 minutes ago
(2 hours ago)eggyk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.An interesting one:
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Hans Zukunft, Das goldene Jahr (from your Minnereden Band 2 (MR2))
1450AD, Swabia
jonius
julius
Jonius for june
Strange, I went to double check and it clearly says "jonius" indeed.
Across the French and German examples, I count about 8 instances where we get "o" in June but not in July. While the phenomenon overall can only be described as very rare, I feel like there should be a reason why June is more susceptible.
In Latin, the difference between Iūnius and Iūlius is just the middle consonant, n/l. Was Iulius more anchored because of Caesar? I'd imagine that association is lost soon enough, but maybe not when one is used to the vernacular names and still sees June and July as Latin words? -
RE: Month names collection / metastudy
Bernd > 43 minutes ago
(1 hour ago)eggyk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Yeah, i tried to find stanza 437 but couldn't.
I wouldn't know how to search Cod. Pal. germ. 324 except manually reading through hundreds of pages...
(1 hour ago)eggyk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Weird, the text differs slightly. In this line and 8 lines above
'in dem aberillen'
This is certainly why we check
8779 den fürsten einen hof sprach -> einen hoff den fürsten allen sprach
Means the transliteration was done from another manuscript, and the scribes did slightly vary month names when copying. Good find!