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Voynich Decoded
- Voynich Decoded
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RE: Voynich Decoded
joben > 14-04-2025, 07:53 PM
(14-04-2025, 06:50 PM)Kris1212 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Have you considered the possibility that Koen might be wrong?? Of course there are loads of people who claim to have solved it but I really believe my decode works, what would you do, just go quietly into the night or bash it out to see if I'm right, I took Koens critique on board I haven't ignored it but in my opinion his critiques are answered and I'm going to show that. He started out as friendly enough but I wouldn't say that's the way it is now and why?? because I don't want to give up and listen to him when I really don't think he's correct and I don't think he gave it a very good look, he only saw half of it, the more I'm decoding the more sense it's making, not less....what do you suggest I do??
Anyone could be wrong, but protecting the theory behind a NDA makes it really hard for us to judge. It does not help your case. It makes it look suspicious.
If I believed I had made a major discovery, I would have to make sure that I take all the VMS facts, previous research, and oddities into account that could disprove my theory. If my theory can stand on its own legs, I would then share it with selected knowledgeable people via email to make sure I do in fact get credit, not that I care about money or fame. I would then share it publicly on the Voynich Ninja and other places. If I could share something and make a thousand Voynich nerds happy, that would be enough reason for me to share it. So that is my suggestion. Don't take the risk of your theory dying with you if you really believe in it. -
RE: Voynich Decoded
RobGea > 14-04-2025, 08:09 PM
(13-04-2025, 10:20 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
- The method takes a specific known issue with Voynichese text and makes it many times worse, to an absurd degree. I won't say which issue, but it's bad.
Ooh... a "guess the issue with the theory" game :: I wager 400 quatloos on Reduplication. - The method takes a specific known issue with Voynichese text and makes it many times worse, to an absurd degree. I won't say which issue, but it's bad.
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RE: Voynich Decoded
oshfdk > 14-04-2025, 08:10 PM
(14-04-2025, 06:50 PM)Kris1212 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Have you considered the possibility that Koen might be wrong?? Of course there are loads of people who claim to have solved it but I really believe my decode works, what would you do, just go quietly into the night or bash it out to see if I'm right, I took Koens critique on board I haven't ignored it but in my opinion his critiques are answered and I'm going to show that. He started out as friendly enough but I wouldn't say that's the way it is now and why?? because I don't want to give up and listen to him when I really don't think he's correct and I don't think he gave it a very good look, he only saw half of it, the more I'm decoding the more sense it's making, not less....what do you suggest I do??
One can't have the cake and eat it too. It's up to you whether to withhold or publish your method, but the less information you share the less persuaded people get. There are many ways to indirectly prove your knowledge of the contents of the manuscript without revealing the text. It would be helpful to your case if you could explain, for example, the meaning of: the big red glyphs on the first page, the sequences of four figures on f85r2 and f86v4, the composition of the Rosettes folio, the four corners of f86v3, the meaning of charts on f67v2, f68v1, f68v2, f68v3, f69r, f69v, f70r1, f70r2. I think a good specific insight into 3-4 of these would add a lot of weight to your deciphering without giving away anything about your method. -
RE: Voynich Decoded
Addsamuels > 14-04-2025, 08:32 PM
(14-04-2025, 08:10 PM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(14-04-2025, 06:50 PM)Kris1212 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Have you considered the possibility that Koen might be wrong?? Of course there are loads of people who claim to have solved it but I really believe my decode works, what would you do, just go quietly into the night or bash it out to see if I'm right, I took Koens critique on board I haven't ignored it but in my opinion his critiques are answered and I'm going to show that. He started out as friendly enough but I wouldn't say that's the way it is now and why?? because I don't want to give up and listen to him when I really don't think he's correct and I don't think he gave it a very good look, he only saw half of it, the more I'm decoding the more sense it's making, not less....what do you suggest I do??
One can't have the cake and eat it too. It's up to you whether to withhold or publish your method, but the less information you share the less persuaded people get. There are many ways to indirectly prove your knowledge of the contents of the manuscript without revealing the text. It would be helpful to your case if you could explain, for example, the meaning of: the big red glyphs on the first page, the sequences of four figures on f85r2 and f86v4, the composition of the Rosettes folio, the four corners of f86v3, the meaning of charts on f67v2, f68v1, f68v2, f68v3, f69r, f69v, f70r1, f70r2. I think a good specific insight into 3-4 of these would add a lot of weight to your deciphering without giving away anything about your method.
It's possible that the 4 red glyphs are just decoration -
RE: Voynich Decoded
oshfdk > 14-04-2025, 09:10 PM
Quite possible, but if 3-4 prominent charts/features in the MS all turn out to be decorative or not related to the text, this would be a huge red flag. -
RE: Voynich Decoded
tavie > 14-04-2025, 09:11 PM
No one is being mean to you. Koen went out of his way to look at your solution (none of us has ever signed an NDA before!) and give you thoughtful feedback. In return, you suggested he didn't want your solution to be correct and didn't fully look at it. Moreover, you also said you "always push on regardless", which kind of makes it pointless to have asked him to look at it.
(14-04-2025, 06:50 PM)Kris1212 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Of course there are loads of people who claim to have solved it but I really believe my decode works
What we are trying to tell you here is that those loads of people - actually hundreds of people - felt and feel the same. They didn't pop up and say "I think I might have cracked it but I'm not sure - what do you guys think?"
No, they were all absolutely and passionately certain that their solution is the correct one. Just like you. And it was explained to them why their solution was wrong, to no avail: they still believe absolutely and passionately that their solution is correct. Just like you.
Take a look at You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.who is still an active member of the forum and still passionately believes she has solved the manuscript ("My solution is the truth"). You can see us asking her the exact same question joben asked you: why are you so certain you are different from all the others?
In a month's time, someone else will have turned up with a completely different solution from you. And we will be saying the same thing to them and pointing them to your solution and the others, and they will be saying "I'm not like Kris and all those others, I really have solved it."
And the cycle will continue, month after month, solver after solver. So, tell us: why are you so 100% certain you are different, given how each of them was 100% certain they were different from the others?
Quote:what would you do, just go quietly into the night or bash it out to see if I'm right...what do you suggest I do??
OK - I'll take you up on that. The problem is that you are already convinced you are right. Confirmation bias means it's probably too late now. To this date, I don't believe we have ever convinced a Voynich solver that they are wrong.
But if it's not too late, then you could read through some of the other solution discussions. From those, you can see:- how those solvers react to criticism; how confirmation bias is causing them to ignore the criticism or denigrate it (you are far from the first to suggest that people here don't want your solution to be correct)
- the reasons why solutions fail. All the solutions in our list are for different systems but all share common problems. You can then consider whether/how those flaws are present in your solution.
- how really the odds are massively against any solution being correct, because there is is this trap in the Voynich that causes people to believe they have solved it when they haven't.
If/when you publish your solution, I would recommend you do it under a pseudonym. Even though he is unlikely to recognize it, Gerald Cheshire hasn't done his career and reputation any favours with his media frenzy for his wrong solution.
(And I'm still curious as to whether you read any previous work before starting your decoding). - how those solvers react to criticism; how confirmation bias is causing them to ignore the criticism or denigrate it (you are far from the first to suggest that people here don't want your solution to be correct)
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RE: Voynich Decoded
AxolotlDoesVoynich > 14-04-2025, 09:15 PM
(14-04-2025, 09:11 PM)tavie Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.No one is being mean to you. Koen went out of his way to look at your solution (none of us has ever signed an NDA before!) and give you thoughtful feedback. In return, you suggested he didn't want your solution to be correct and didn't fully look at it. Moreover, you also said you "always push on regardless", which kind of makes it pointless to have asked him to look at it.
(14-04-2025, 06:50 PM)Kris1212 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Of course there are loads of people who claim to have solved it but I really believe my decode works
What we are trying to tell you here is that those loads of people - actually hundreds of people - felt and feel the same. They didn't pop up and say "I think I might have cracked it but I'm not sure - what do you guys think?"
No, they were all absolutely and passionately certain that their solution is the correct one. Just like you. And it was explained to them why their solution was wrong, to no avail: they still believe absolutely and passionately that their solution is correct. Just like you.
Take a look at You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.who is still an active member of the forum and still passionately believes she has solved the manuscript ("My solution is the truth"). You can see us asking her the exact same question joben asked you: why are you so certain you are different from all the others?
In a month's time, someone else will have turned up with a completely different solution from you. And we will be saying the same thing to them and pointing them to your solution and the others, and they will be saying "I'm not like Kris and all those others, I really have solved it."
Do I count as a Voynich "solver" that knows my translation was wrong? (just saying) -
RE: Voynich Decoded
nablator > 14-04-2025, 09:26 PM
(14-04-2025, 07:09 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Using your method, I could make the whole MS about my daily shaving routine, and there would be no way of telling which one is a better translation of the text.
To generate a meaningful text about anything is quite an achievement already, unless there is a cipher key of the same size as the text.
Or it's something less deterministic like You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., that lets you choose among many possible words that share the same numerical value (and do your own creative writing in the process). -
RE: Voynich Decoded
oshfdk > 14-04-2025, 09:31 PM
(14-04-2025, 09:26 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.To generate a meaningful text about anything is quite an achievement already, unless there is a cipher key of the same size as the text.
It depends on how you define meaningful. If 'qok' is a table, 'aiin' is a chair and 'edy' is a tablecloth, then you'll get a meaningful inventory of a restaurant. -
RE: Voynich Decoded
Kris1212 > 14-04-2025, 09:33 PM
(14-04-2025, 07:53 PM)joben Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
And I'm going to, it's only been a few days!! You can all pick it apart then, I'm also working full time, I have an animal rescuse, 17 dogs and live off the grid, I'm going as fast as I can and I have to make sure I can evidence every single bit of my theory so there are no holes in it, which I'm currently doing :-)(14-04-2025, 06:50 PM)Kris1212 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Have you considered the possibility that Koen might be wrong?? Of course there are loads of people who claim to have solved it but I really believe my decode works, what would you do, just go quietly into the night or bash it out to see if I'm right, I took Koens critique on board I haven't ignored it but in my opinion his critiques are answered and I'm going to show that. He started out as friendly enough but I wouldn't say that's the way it is now and why?? because I don't want to give up and listen to him when I really don't think he's correct and I don't think he gave it a very good look, he only saw half of it, the more I'm decoding the more sense it's making, not less....what do you suggest I do??
Anyone could be wrong, but protecting the theory behind a NDA makes it really hard for us to judge. It does not help your case. It makes it look suspicious.
If I believed I had made a major discovery, I would have to make sure that I take all the VMS facts, previous research, and oddities into account that could disprove my theory. If my theory can stand on its own legs, I would then share it with selected knowledgeable people via email to make sure I do in fact get credit, not that I care about money or fame. I would then share it publicly on the Voynich Ninja and other places. If I could share something and make a thousand Voynich nerds happy, that would be enough reason for me to share it. So that is my suggestion. Don't take the risk of your theory dying with you if you really believe in it.