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[split] BessAgritianin's reading of 116v
- [split] BessAgritianin's reading of 116v
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RE: [split] BessAgritianin's reading of 116v
monisusa > 26-05-2024, 03:21 PM
[Zitat="monisusa" pid='59703' Datumszeile='1716465279']
Leider hast du die gotische Schreibschrift (Bastarda) nicht richtig gelesen. Tut mir leid, aber das meiste ist falsch.
Beispielsweise muss „abra“ eigentlich „atzia“ gelesen werden. Viele Forscher haben das falsch verstanden.
Die zweite Glyphe stellt das Phonem „tz“ dar.
"Atzia" wird mundartlich geschrieben und bedeutet hier "ruhen lassen" (im modernen Deutsch anziehen, mundartlich azia) und weist darauf hin, dass die Salbe einige Zeit ruhen muss, bevor sie in Gläser gefüllt wird. Es ist eine typische Ausdrucksweise bei Kochrezepten oder bei der Herstellung einer Salbe.
Die Bezeichnung „Lab“ ist eindeutig die deutsche Bezeichnung für „Lab“, das aus dem Magen von Ziegen, Schafen und Kälbern gewonnen wird.
Deshalb ist hier eine Ziege mit Magen abgebildet. Gezeigt wird ein Tiermagen mit seinen typischen Kammern. Sonst nichts!
Es könnte sich auch auf das letzte Wort „gasmich“ beziehen, das ein Dialektwort ist und „Ziegenmilch“ bedeutet. Ihre Transkription „yasmine“ ist falsch. Der erste Buchstabe ist g, nicht y.
Es kam zu einer Phonemverschiebung und dem mittelhochdeutschen Diphtong ei > a.
Geiss > Gas (Ziege). Dieser Phonemwechsel fand schon sehr früh statt.
Die Dialektsprache von You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. gehört meiner Ansicht nach zur ostbayerisch-österreichischen Gruppe. Es gibt auch lateinische Wörter für pharmazeutische Begriffe.
Bei der Rezeptur handelt es sich lediglich um eine Salbe zur Behandlung von Gelenkentzündungen und hat nichts mit Geschlechtskrankheiten zu tun.
Die Ergebnisse meiner Recherchen können Sie demnächst in meiner Publikation nachlesen.
[/Zitat] -
RE: [split] BessAgritianin's reading of 116v
Koen G > 26-05-2024, 03:29 PM
I understand it can be tricky when using automatic translators, but still please try to double check before posting if your text is actually in English, as per the forum rules. -
RE: [split] BessAgritianin's reading of 116v
monisusa > 26-05-2024, 03:52 PM
Sorry Koen, forget about your "Maria" in f 116v. Although it hurts :-). We have to think about a plausible context and content and this is only possible when we recognise and speak the language. "maria" as single word does not stand in a plausible context" after the word "atzia" and is not a logical sequence in this recipe.
atzia(gn) + ma(nare) vi(tr)a +
anziehen(let rest) + fill into Glasses
(Bavarian-Austrian) (latin, pharmaceutical term) -
RE: [split] BessAgritianin's reading of 116v
Aga Tentakulus > 26-05-2024, 04:46 PM
@monisusa
You're wrong.
A ‘tz’ or ‘ez’ (rare) is spelt the same way as in ‘hertz’, ‘chrütz’ and ‘gotz’.
You also have a separate ‘ma ria’.
The other is the ending ‘s’ or double ‘ss’ as in VM- ‘muss’.
As in ‘mies god gan’. (My God goes)
In use today.
‘mies mami’ mini Muether, meine Mutter, old German meine Muther and my Mother.
You just said it twice in "das was unser herr Jesus crist" ... ‘that which our Lord Jesus Christ’ -
RE: [split] BessAgritianin's reading of 116v
Koen G > 26-05-2024, 06:49 PM
The crosses make Maria plausible. They indicate that we are in the realm of religion and magical thinking.
The things about which there is consensus that they could be ingredients (pox leber and goat milk) are not on the same line.
Many people forget that we are looking at the last page of the manuscript, which was often used like scrap paper, for testing pens and ink. It is typical to find disjunct phrases on them, which appears to be exactly what we are looking at here. To me, any reading that tries to understand the text on the page as a unified whole is actually less likely than one that tries to understand its various phrases separately. -
RE: [split] BessAgritianin's reading of 116v
Aga Tentakulus > 26-05-2024, 07:41 PM
The crosses make Maria plausible.
Naturally. There are also two words from ancient Hebrew. We are not entirely sure.
‘ma’ = mother / ‘Ria’ = beloved of God.
Jesus as the Son of God. Hence Maria (ma + ria) Mother of God. But consisting of 2 individual words. -
RE: [split] BessAgritianin's reading of 116v
Aga Tentakulus > 26-05-2024, 07:53 PM
But you should also consider that the 3 lines are on the same writing line and the same ink was used. -
RE: [split] BessAgritianin's reading of 116v
Koen G > 26-05-2024, 08:01 PM
The Maria line doesn't go all the way to the end though. The layout suggests a fresh start at the Voynichese word.
The page appears like this:
Fragment of recipe
Charm
Second line of charm
Voynichese words --- fragment of recipe
There are also separate fragments in the margin. -
RE: [split] BessAgritianin's reading of 116v
Aga Tentakulus > 26-05-2024, 09:07 PM
It is only a visual judgement.
You could also say that the ‘+’ between Maria was added later, as it is not in between but above, unlike the others. -
RE: [split] BessAgritianin's reading of 116v
BessAgritianin > 29-05-2024, 03:43 PM
(22-05-2024, 08:05 PM)RobGea Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.More issues:
Quote:The sign plus is interpreted as "add" by the author further on.
--no contemporary example or reference provided.
The sign plus will be investigated more deeply and more possibilities provided.
voynichese 'oror' / 'aror'[1] transcribed as 'aron'
--Eva( 'r' ) transcribed into 2 different latin-script letters, no rationale given.
Voynechese Writer has used by purpose (encoding) or by writing without understanding the original text for some letters seemingly the same symbol. This is the case with "r", used as "r" and as "n" in other cases.
Wait and see with some other symbols how many combinations of letters exist!