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No text, but a visual code
- No text, but a visual code
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RE: No text, but a visual code
Koen G > 20-12-2021, 09:53 AM
(20-12-2021, 01:31 AM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Perhaps it might be considered that certain 'wandering' stars, Mercury, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn, are masculine.
Yeah Mars as a male would be a good idea. Or even named stars like Arcturus. This would be a good way to refine one's theory. Too bad it's set in stone that the male figures were drawn as jokes out of boredom with the female form... -
RE: No text, but a visual code
Antonio García Jiménez > 20-12-2021, 04:59 PM
There are no planets in the Voynich. Only fixed stars. If the author had drawn Mars and Venus, he would have personified the former as a male figure and the latter as a female, as seen in numerous medieval manuscripts. But on each zodiacal page of the book we only see female figures. They occupy each of the 30 degrees of the sign. They hold a star in their hand.
I don't want to be pretentious but I think the simplest explanation, according to Ockam's razor, is that each female figure represents a fixed star in the sky. -
RE: No text, but a visual code
R. Sale > 20-12-2021, 06:18 PM
What about Castor and Pollux? They are fixed stars with masculine representations. Koen suggested Arcturus; perhaps there are others. -
RE: No text, but a visual code
Antonio García Jiménez > 21-12-2021, 06:29 PM
I believe that in the minds of the creators of the Voynich there are no proper names of stars, but the common feminine noun (stella). It is evident, given that if there were proper names of stars of course we would see at least a dozen male figures because on the zodiacal pages there are 300 human figures drawn.
The vast majority of stars drawn in the form of a female figure did not have their own name and were only identified by their position in the constellation.
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This is the image of Aries from the lapidary of Alfonso X the wise. They are the medieval images most similar to the zodiacal pages of the Voynich. Here what there in each of the 30 degrees of the sphere are angels, not stars. It is a Christianized astrology. -
RE: No text, but a visual code
Aga Tentakulus > 22-12-2021, 01:57 AM
The assertion that it is only female to see, I reject immediately from the table.
And that it is to be regarded as a joke or provided, that is purely your view.
You can't tell me that the examples here are now to be seen as female.
Your arguments have no support. -
RE: No text, but a visual code
Mark Knowles > 22-12-2021, 04:22 PM
Surely, the question here is if the figures self-identify as male or female or non-binary. -
RE: No text, but a visual code
Antonio García Jiménez > 22-12-2021, 06:45 PM
To be honest, I am not the first to relate the so-called nymphs of the Voynich zodiacal section with the angels of the Lapidary of King Alfonso X.
In 2017, MarcoP wrote this:
the zodiac nymphs are individually labeled, each of them holds a star and they appear in a layout similar to the 360 angels in the zodiac wheels of Alfonso's Lapidario. I believe these nymphs (and the angels in the Lapidary) are personifications of the power of the stars.
As you can see, MarcoP also thinks that nymphs are the personification of stars. What I'm saying is that these pretty ladies are the same as those in Quire 13, that is, they are also the stars. And all those pipes are the way in which they come down from heaven to earth so that medicinal herbs are born.
It's medieval science! -
RE: No text, but a visual code
Linda > 23-12-2021, 04:14 AM
(22-12-2021, 06:45 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It's medieval science!
If so, it appears to compare unfavourably with other medieval science of the day.
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I like what i think was your idea that astronomical drawings, star tables, and astrolabes might be involved in thecreation of some sort of star code, just not in the way you depict their associations.
Personification of the power of stars does not sound like science, more like art. Power of the stars themselves, in relation to plants, i think is more philosophy, but maybe some science, like knowing when to plant or harvest things by the appearance of certain stars or constellations on the horizon. Travelling down pipes, do you have any other examples of that? -
RE: No text, but a visual code
Antonio García Jiménez > 24-12-2021, 09:12 AM
Linda, you give me as an example of science a Muslim sultan who like all the kings of the time, Christians or Muslims, had an astrologer in their court to make horoscopes. At that time astronomy and astrology were very close and if there was interest in correctly fixing the position of the stars, it is to make better astrological predictions.
The best image that describes the Voynich era is that of the zodiacal man. Numerous manuscripts have survived with that image, which, as you can see, mixes science with art. There is no better representation of star power.
You ask me if I have an example of the iconography of Quire 13 of the VM. If I had it, we wouldn't have been researching what it means for more than a hundred years. What I think is that the book, although very original, fits very well with the culture of its time. -
RE: No text, but a visual code
Antonio García Jiménez > 26-12-2021, 05:55 PM
Look at this image
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Sufficient data have been provided in this forum to make a correct iconographic interpretation of this image and of the entire Quire 13.
You just have to take a look at these threads:
Dotted scallop pattern-roof tiles and Divine cloud- tent, both threads started by Koen
Under de big tent, thread started by Marco
Those umbrella, pinecone things, started by VViews
I do not want to add anything else, except that the only possible interpretation is that it is about the stars that come down from the sky