(06-07-2020, 04:22 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I see, Barbrey, that you have started now with the Voynich with enthusiasm. If you allow me, I will give you some advice. The first: have no doubt that this is a genuine European product from the 15th century.
The second: try not to be reasonable when you investigate it. I mean, the mindset that made the Voynich has nothing to do with ours. A man from the past is almost as mysterious as a man from de future.
And finally, use reason only for this: if in more than a hundred years of research (not counting the 17th century) no one has found a language, there is no one.
I'm not sure why you felt the need for this advice: I have not questioned the manuscript's provenence of the 15th century (though it is possible it was only scribed then, not originally authored then), and I myself am not looking for a language - my attempts would be fruitless as I more than likely would not know it. Instead, I'm looking for patterns relative to what I believe the text's cohesive message is as shown through the illustrations. As I believe it is essentially pharmaceutical in nature, the prior sections of botany, astrology and biology showing why these medicines are effective, I've been looking at major medieval influences in those sciences and trying to read them when there are English translations.
It's true I throw out a million ideas, at least now as a newcomer, but I only post them publicly to see if others have already pursued a line of inquiry before I begin ruling it out myself.
For instance, whether through the use of a volvelle, or in matters of astroligy, alchemy, botany, pharmacy or natural philosophy, whether in real lamguage, invented language, symbols or code, some characters in the manuscript must represent numbers. And unless this is some kind of changing cypher, the same characters should consistently represent the same numbers (though they might also represent other things). I believe this could very well be a key to unlocking the manuscript but have not found any articles on the subject so far that speak of a detailed analysis.
Once you have the numbers down, you can go about relating them to the illustrations, and eventually a system would emerge, and from that would open up if there is a language, a code, a volvelle, or a nonsense.
For me, though, I need to know the major influences that could bear on my initial impression of the text's cohesion. For that reason, I am looking at the Corpus Hermeticum, Al Kindi's On Rays, Dioscordes, the Picatrix, etc. with many more to come because I'm totally enjoying this research whether it bears fruit or not. I am not looking at scripts, languages,etc. but at symbols, particularly symbols as they might relate to numbers, and the way numbers were used in these disciplines of the day..
For instance, you yourself have said the author uses a volvelle and "o" represents a degree, which could easily be the case Knowing the info a volvelle might give you, the "o" should be associated, much of the time, with a number, if your theory is correct. At least I assume so. - that's why I asked what info a volvelle gives you, but as you didn't answer, I will google!
I disagree that we today cannot try to think like those from the past. Our brains are the same, though they operated within different systems in the past. I don't believe in astrology or magic. That doesn't mean II can't at least partially understand the mind of a man or woman who does believe in these things, particularly if I read up on them.
Anyway, I will not bother your thread any more as I think you're adamant that the whole thing is random astrological gibberish and for now I am unwilling to concede, though who knows what I will think a month or two from now! Show me the numbers and you will utterly convince me!