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• No text, but a visual code

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  Antonio García Jiménez > 07-06-2026, 05:46 PM

  Besides crowns and rings, there are other things that some female figures carry as identifying marks: spindles. Strange as it may seem, it's another way of saying that the pointed stars have become women.
  
    Spindles, like crowns and rings, are another metaphor for the stars. We see four female figures with spindles in Quire 13: two at f80r, one at f80v, and another at f82r. The most spectacular image is the one at f80v, where the female figure wields the spindle like a sword.
  
    Koen G was one of the first to recognize these objects as spindles and to give them meaning. According to Platonic ideas, the circumpolar stars spin the days around the Earth's axis like a spindle. My interpretation doesn't vary much. Except that instead of circumpolar stars, it's the zodiacal stars that, spinning through the years, rotate like a spindle.

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  Antonio García Jiménez > 19-06-2026, 07:59 AM

  I'm inclined to think that the biggest problem with the Voynich is figuring out what the hundreds of female figures in the codex mean. I maintain that it is a representation of the fixed stars, and that we see them first in the zodiacal section and then in Quire 13, where they are seen descending to Earth as an allegory of astral influence.
  
    When this interpretation is accepted, it will become clear that the script is just a set of astronomical symbols that are organized with some astrological meaning.

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  ololololo > 19-06-2026, 09:59 AM

  (23-05-2018, 07:05 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hello everyone,
  
  I think there is not a language in the Voynich. No letters, no alphabet, nothing phonetic.  It is only a visual code, an astronomical-astrological code which indicate the location of the stars in the celestial sphere. Each star of the Zodiac provide its virtue to an herb, therefore was very important identify well the stars

  Well, your theory sounds quite interesting. But such theories are complicated, particularly in terms of proof. I remember a theory that the writing of a manuscript is a way of drawing different patterns in an 8x8 square and the arguments were based only on the first page. Of course, I'm not comparing your theory, but to prove it, you need to create a very precise and consistent system. Just because you can do it doesn't mean a medieval scholar can.
  
  One of the nuances of the theory is that it assumes that the manuscript in its current form (or at least most of it) was intended to be read this way: that everything was meant to be, that every detail carries a huge inner meaning, that everything means something... This is a very vulnerable position. If it turns out that the plants were painted blue simply because the artist had an excess of blue paint, then half of the theory will be destroyed.

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  Antonio García Jiménez > 19-06-2026, 04:29 PM

  The idea that the author painted the plants blue because he had an excess of blue paint seems to me a very poor explanation that ignores the medieval mentality.
  
    It seems much more plausible that the blue color in the flowers has a strongly symbolic component and that the author used it to relate the plants to the sky. In fact, the codex can be characterized as a herbal accompanied by astronomical or astrological sections, which reinforces the symbolism of the color blue. On folio f68v, in the middle of a circular diagram full of stars, we see in the center the corolla of a flower with blue petals.
  
     I've seen that you've started a thread about a possible anatomical interpretation of Quire 13, where there would be all kinds of human organs. This interpretation is a widespread error. And it's not a minor error, but a major one that demonstrates a lack of understanding of medieval iconographic representation.

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  Barbrey > 19-06-2026, 06:25 PM

  (19-06-2026, 04:29 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The idea that the author painted the plants blue because he had an excess of blue paint seems to me a very poor explanation that ignores the medieval mentality.
  
    It seems much more plausible that the blue color in the flowers has a strongly symbolic component and that the author used it to relate the plants to the sky. In fact, the codex can be characterized as a herbal accompanied by astronomical or astrological sections, which reinforces the symbolism of the color blue. On folio f68v, in the middle of a circular diagram full of stars, we see in the center the corolla of a flower with blue petals.
  
     I've seen that you've started a thread about a possible anatomical interpretation of Quire 13, where there would be all kinds of human organs. This interpretation is a widespread error. And it's not a minor error, but a major one that demonstrates a lack of understanding of medieval iconographic representation.

  
  I agree - the colour symbolism of blue, yellow, green and white (where it’s been painted but that’s very hard to tell sometimes) is very consistent in my schema despite the general sloppiness of the colorization. The only colour that I find difficult is red (or orange) which seems to be missing sometimes where it should be used, such as for fire. Instead we get a ring showing fire shapes around a few spheres but they’ve not been colored in. There will be a reason for this. I’ve thought of a few but no evidence to back up so won’t explain here.

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  ololololo > 19-06-2026, 08:43 PM

  (19-06-2026, 04:29 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The idea that the author painted the plants blue because he had an excess of blue paint seems to me a very poor explanation that ignores the medieval mentality.

  Yes, people in the Middle Ages thought differently, but that doesn't mean that everything they did was perfect, accurate, or meaningful.
  

  (19-06-2026, 04:29 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. This interpretation is a widespread error.

  Why?
  
  Also I would like to see a serious argument as to why you might be right, and this argument should be stronger than "blue means space, plants are blue, so plants mean space."

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  Antonio García Jiménez > 20-06-2026, 03:42 PM

  The interpretation of Quire 13 as an anatomical section is a major and seemingly widespread error. I stated this before, and I repeat it not arbitrarily, but because it is essential for the coherence that all reasoned research must possess. I start from a minimal assumption: the Voynich manuscript is a whole, a codex with a unified meaning. Anyone who thinks it consists of different, unconnected parts should stop reading this because we'll never agree.
  
     The codex is a medicinal or magical herbal like others of its time. It is distinguished by the fact that it is accompanied by astrological and cosmological diagrams, but this is consistent with medieval thought, in which medical science was closely linked to astrology. Therefore, the Voynich Manuscript, even though it is a rare and highly original codex, is deeply embedded in the culture of its time. It is a cultural artifact of that era.
  
     The idea that there might be an anatomical section in the Voynich Manuscript is completely illogical, because it is clearly an astrological herbal. No one in the 17th century, when we have the first evidence of its existence, imagined that the codex depicted human organs. It was simply assumed to be a herbal containing exotic plants with medicinal uses. Furthermore, in the 17th century, the symbolic meaning of images had not been lost. If people saw naked women, they knew it meant something else.
  
    To properly interpret Quire 13, the first thing to do is to ask what the female figures in the zodiacal section mean, because they are the same. Those figures are all holding a star. I can speculate endlessly about what that means, but in all likelihood, it means that those female figures represent stars because that was a common form of representation in the Middle Ages. Everyone has seen the planet Venus depicted as a beautiful woman, or the planet Mars as a warrior. There are manuscripts in which these figures are accompanied by stars above or beside their heads, similar to the Voynich Manuscript.
  
     A zodiac sign is nothing more than a constellation of fixed stars. I don't think it's very difficult, therefore, to interpret the female figures holding stars. What surprises me is that I have to defend this practically alone.

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  ololololo > 20-06-2026, 07:28 PM

  (20-06-2026, 03:42 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Therefore, the Voynich Manuscript, even though it is a rare and highly original codex, is deeply embedded in the culture of its time. It is a cultural artifact of that era.

  This is true. But that doesn't prove anything.
  

  (20-06-2026, 03:42 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.No one in the 17th century, when we have the first evidence of its existence, imagined that the codex depicted human organs.

  I could say, for example, that in the 17th century, no one thought that the language of a manuscript was an astronomical notation system (apologies for simplifying your theory). But I won't say that because I know it's not an argument. No one knows for sure what the manuscript is about, and we can only guess. Maybe they're not even herbs?
  You weren't present when the manuscript was written, so you can't say for sure, especially if there's no evidence to support it.
  

  (20-06-2026, 03:42 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Furthermore, in the 17th century, the symbolic meaning of images had not been lost.

  Symbolism is not always obvious. I assume images of organs because this is the kind of information that should be hidden or encrypted. It's not surprising, either, as scientists at the time knew what different organs looked like. 
  

  (20-06-2026, 03:42 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.the first thing to do is to ask what the female figures in the zodiacal section mean, because they are the same.

  Not all. There is one image of a man (I can't remember exactly where). Although they hold stars, it sometimes seems that they don't represent them. They may represent a certain time, such as holidays or special days. But I agree that nymphs themselves (out of context) have some kind of similar meaning.
  

  (20-06-2026, 03:42 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.What surprises me is that I have to defend this practically alone.

  It's not that bad. If you're on the right path, but people don't believe you, it doesn't mean that you're not on the right path.

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  Antonio García Jiménez > 21-06-2026, 04:56 PM

  You're right that I wasn't present when the Voynich manuscript was made, and therefore I can't be sure what it means. In fact, no one can be certain, and I don't think we'll ever reach absolute certainty about all the details of the codex.
  
    What I do believe is that in any attempt to understand something that remains obscure to us, there are degrees of probability. In the case of the Voynich, some theories are more probable than others, and some approaches to certain aspects are more probable than others.
    
     To focus solely on imagery, Quire 13 is an extremely obscure section to understand, but that does not mean that there are not approaches that are more likely than others depending on the clues shown by the entire codex and on our knowledge of the culture of the time and its modes of iconographic representation.
  
     Let's take an example. You think that in Quire 13 there are all kinds of human organs, but I think they are images that mostly allude to the medieval cosmological conception with tubes passing through the planetary spheres. On the first page, f75r, we see a kind of slide down which the female figures are descending. They are descending from a structure shaped like a tent roof. I believe this is a metaphor for astral influence descending from the last sphere, that of the fixed stars.

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  ololololo > 21-06-2026, 05:41 PM

  (21-06-2026, 04:56 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You think that in Quire 13 there are all kinds of human organs, but I think they are images that mostly allude to the medieval cosmological conception with tubes passing through the planetary spheres.

  Maybe you're right, maybe I'm right. This interpretation is also justified. 
  However, it should be noted that in addition to determining the writing style, it is also necessary to determine the "target audience". They are the people who will be able to read this and use it. Plus, when you say that the Voynichese system is not something exotic, you have to explain why it is unique and why we can't read it. The universal clause for this case is that the information was hidden, i.e., encrypted. The universal clause for this case is that the information was hidden, i.e., encrypted, and the method of writing the manuscript could not be understood by everyone.
  However, I find this astrological approach quite fruitful, as long as it focuses on a system rather than a series of coincidences.
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