(05-07-2020, 07:29 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Al Kindi's book es very interesting. I didn't know it.
Barbrey, it is easy to locate the nine o's in a row. They are at the top of the outer circle of f70r1. But more important than those nine o's is that they are followed by three other symbols of the script, which means that this chain of symbols is one of the script and not an ornament of the imagery or a whim of the author.
I understand your resistance to accepting that it is not a language and there are no words. It's our natural inclination. But if you think that the Voynich is a magic book, precisely a European magic book influenced by Arab magic, it is easier to accept that the whole script consists of combinations of astronomical-astrological symbols
Actually I do accept the idea of symbols, that's my premise as well, and that many of them, if not most, are astrological symbols. I definitely believe it's a magic book influenced by Arab magic (and I'm making my way through these books - the primary one was Al Kindi's On Rays, and read The Picatrix yesterday - I actually think you need to read On Rays - it's quick and easy, btw, and was a major influence on Roger Bacon who went on to influence Europe himself).
But symbols can be expressed in sound. They are also often multi-layered in meaning. I am on another site posting about a possible numerical system based on the moon.
The moon governs numbers in old astrology. And the c symbol, which looks like the moon symbol, along with the i and a symbols, does not seem to be included on the "alphabet" page of 17 repeaters. So I played around with the c's and i's until they made sense as a numerical system that would work with astrology. i=1, c=2, a=3, cc=4, c-c=5, etc. I've just started looking at it but you must agree that even if there are no discrete letters, astrology requires numbers. And there are particular numbers astrology uses over and over again from 1-12. 7 is huge c-c c. 4 cc for the elements of course but if you include ether (and the VMS writer did, it's all over the rosette page connecting things) you end up with 5, the 4 elements connected ,c-c.
So if this number system is correct (likely not, I just thought of it yesterday), the c-c not only stands for 5 but is also a symbol for "elements", and both 5 and elements can be spoken in an original language, just as star and planet names can be.
Similarly, I'm currently looking at the ligatures in terms of something I read in the Picatrix yesterday. The main purpose of the VMS is medicine, selling it or teaching it, how astrology influences plants and their properties and the life enhancing or prolonging that comes from correct alignment.. Those ligatures - the double tee with one loop, the double tee with two loops, and the signpost ligature, are described almost exactly in the picatrix though they are not signs in the Picatrix. They are properties of medicine making or all hermetical magic. Similarity (two loops), difference (one loop and one empty), and the signpost - which the Picatrix actually calls a signpost - to describe the where and when of doing the magic or making the medicine. Absolute necessities in this astrological herbal because you need similarities between the correct planets and stars and the plants or your medicine will be unsuccessful, and you need to align your medicines with the best time and place to make them according to the horoscope.
So that two loop symbol could just be indicative of correspondences that will make your medicine making successful, and the single loop shows it won't be propitious. Combine these with other symbols and you've got something approaching a language already - who, what, where, how, when and why. For me, that's a language, if it answers these questions - using code, letter, symbol, whatever. Whether it is phonetically pronounceable is another matter, but I actually don't see why not if the authors had particular phonetic words in their head as they wrote each symbol.
But I think you've studied it a lot and we both agree on a lot (and you might be right re the astrology volvelle as solely responsible, which is the part I think we mainly disagree about). Forgive me for spouting off, I'm new and have too many things in my headthad that have yet to be deflated by the more serious scholars.
Can you give me an example of the kind of info a volvelle might give you and is throughout the VMS. You don't have to be accurate at all, but I'd just like an example. I mean, would it be "Taurus at 8 degrees with Saturn ascendent" kind of thing, and just rows and rows of that kind of info without explaining how it relates to plants and medicine? Because if so I'd regard 250 pages as a hoax. I mean, who would bother? But maybe I'm misnderstanding?