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• No text, but a visual code

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  Radim Dobeš > 19-08-2026, 04:32 AM

  (18-08-2026, 02:03 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

  (18-08-2026, 12:25 PM)Radim Dobeš Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I agree with you that the folding folio with rosettes is a cosmological model of the universe. Does everyone agree?

  
  The answer to the question  "[something about the Voynich Manuscript], does everyone agree?" is always "no". 
  If you're lucky, you'll get a "yes" on "does anyone agree?"

  
  However, this also applies to the official classification of VMS into Herbal (Botanical)—why is it called that?—and Balneological (Biological)—why use this name when there is no generally accepted definition? Why "Pharmaceutical"—who agreed on that? And I certainly don't understand the category "Recipes"—is that generally accepted, too? And for what reason?

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  Radim Dobeš > 19-08-2026, 05:09 AM

  An illustrative example of a possible interpretation of the VMS map (with New Jerusalem at the center, naturally). However, I believe that Antonio's model from this thread assumes a heliocentric model rather than a flat Earth.

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  Antonio García Jiménez > 19-08-2026, 08:40 AM

  Radim, what I think about the Rosettes foldout has nothing to do with that. It is not a terrestrial map. To me, it is a representation of the medieval universe, not of the Earth. And there was no heliocentric model at that time.
  
  The fact that the terrestrial sphere is positioned in a corner is simply because the authors wish to display, at the center, the sphere of the fixed stars—the source of astral influence.

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  Radim Dobeš > 19-08-2026, 09:07 AM

  (19-08-2026, 08:40 AM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Radim, what I think about the Rosettes foldout has nothing to do with that. It is not a terrestrial map. To me, it is a representation of the medieval universe, not of the Earth. And there was no heliocentric model at that time.
  
    The fact that the terrestrial sphere is positioned in a corner is simply because the authors wish to display, at the center, the sphere of the fixed stars—the source of astral influence.

  
  I think I am trying to express the same thing, but we are talking past each other. It is clear that the folding folio is a model of the universe. The Earth is in the top right corner—that is also clear. In the center lies the highest sphere of influence. The surrounding rosettes represent other, lower spheres of influence. Does this align with your theory?

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  ololololo > 19-08-2026, 10:17 AM

  (19-08-2026, 09:07 AM)Radim Dobeš Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

  (19-08-2026, 08:40 AM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Radim, what I think about the Rosettes foldout has nothing to do with that. It is not a terrestrial map. To me, it is a representation of the medieval universe, not of the Earth. And there was no heliocentric model at that time.
  
    The fact that the terrestrial sphere is positioned in a corner is simply because the authors wish to display, at the center, the sphere of the fixed stars—the source of astral influence.

  
  I think I am trying to express the same thing, but we are talking past each other. It is clear that the folding folio is a model of the universe. The Earth is in the top right corner—that is also clear. In the center lies the highest sphere of influence. The surrounding rosettes represent other, lower spheres of influence. Does this align with your theory?

  As far as I remember, according to Antonio, these are the planets.

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  Antonio García Jiménez > 20-08-2026, 09:04 AM

  The other rosettes are not the planets themselves, but the immense spheres containing them. The medieval universe is a system of concentric spheres, bounded by the sphere of the fixed stars. The fact that they appear unfolded in the Voynich is intended to illustrate the system of influences.
  
  At the top left, we can see the sphere of the Moon, which was also considered a planet. We see the sphere as a whole, and within it, the Moon in a crescent shape. Some might find it surprising that only the crescent appears and not all the phases, given that we see the Moon follow a circular path. It is not unusual to see this in the Voynich manuscript, because on folio f68r1 we also see, at the top, the face of the moon surrounded by crescents.

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  Antonio García Jiménez > 22-08-2026, 06:24 PM

  To understand the Rosettes, it is necessary to know how the universe was conceived in the Middle Ages. I will focus on the outer sphere of the medieval cosmos, that of the fixed stars. For medieval thinkers, the fixed stars were embedded in the sphere, and there were no dark spaces. If they looked at the sky and saw a dark area, they assumed the light from those stars was too faint to be seen.
  
  The central rosette represents the sphere of the fixed stars. We see that blue, scallop-shaped band, which is the iconographic device most commonly used to mark the cosmic boundary. We see tubes emerging around the outer circle, and next to them, bumps with black dots representing the openings of other tubes. The artist is attempting to simulate the sphere using additional, overlapping bumps. For the author, the stars were inside those tubes, and their light or astrological influence emanated from there.
  
  Apart from the outer circle, there are two other inner circles in the central rosette. There are also bumps with black dots, representing tubes drawn in a flattened style. The entire design aims to convey the idea of ​​a three-dimensional sphere completely covered in tube openings.
  
  The author wanted to leave space on the surface to draw the luxurious vessels covered in asterisk-shaped stars. The message is that the contents of those vessels—which also appear in the pharmaceutical section of the Voynich manuscript—are something distilled in the sphere of the fixed stars. This is common astrological thought in the Middle Ages.

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  Linda > 22-08-2026, 06:46 PM

  (22-08-2026, 06:24 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.This is common astrological thought in the Middle Ages.

  
  I was with you until this statement.

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  Rafal > 22-08-2026, 06:47 PM

  So the central Rosette is the sphere of fixed stars.
  
  Do other Rosettes are other spheres?
  If so, what is your assignment of Rosettes to celestial spheres, Antonio?
  
  Let's say we have the following spheres:
  
  Moon
  Mercury
  Venus
  Sun
  Mars
  Jupiter
  Saturn
  Firmament
  Primum Mobile
  Empireum
  
  
  
  Or does it work another way?

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  Radim Dobeš > 23-08-2026, 07:18 AM

  I largely agree with Antonio, but in my view, the planetary system is merely a subset of the entire celestial system—such as the Kabbalistic system of the heavens or the Enochian one. In these cases, the planetary spheres constitute a single system within the celestial layers.
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