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No text, but a visual code

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• No text, but a visual code

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  Antonio García Jiménez > 03-07-2024, 12:25 PM

  This is a horoscope from the second half of the 15th century, when zodiacal symbols were already in use.
  
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  In the upper left triangle we clearly see the symbol of Libra, and a little further down, in the same triangle, the symbol of the dragon's head. The curious thing is the enormous resemblance that this last symbol has with the Voynich gallows.

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  Antonio García Jiménez > 07-07-2024, 08:51 AM

  Whoever defends that the script represents a language, whether natural or encrypted, must explain why there are so many glyphs in the codex. Not only the most repeated ones that serve to construct the so-called main text but the very numerous ones that only appear once or only a few times. This is something that is not usually paid attention to and I consider it to be key to understanding the nature of the script.
  
  The clearest example is folio F57v, where the four sequences of glyphs follow the same pattern.
  
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  What are those strange and unique glyphs that we see mixed with others so repeated throughout the book? Why, if the script represents a language, does it not make extensive use of those rare glyphs? This is a question waiting for an answer.

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  Koen G > 07-07-2024, 09:06 AM

  There are many more glyphs than just the alphabet in regular manuscripts. Capitals, ligatures, abbreviations, numerals...
  
  How does the Voynichese system tackle numerals? Does it have a way to deal with them or is this solved in an ad hoc manner? How about Roman numerals? How about Greek letters if it encounters them? The questions are endless, as are the potential answers.

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  Antonio García Jiménez > 07-07-2024, 12:15 PM

  That's a good way to avoid having to think more. For example, I see in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. that strange composition of a square joined to a triangle without a base and another sign above. How can that be a Capital, a ligature, abbreviation or a number?
  
  I have never seen such a thing in a medieval manuscript and I have seen quite a few. The only thing it resembles is some type of geometric element, something used in the world of astrology.

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  ReneZ > 07-07-2024, 12:28 PM

  The unusual signs in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. could conceivably be symbols for the planets.
  Such symbols should appear with very low frequency, and this is what we see.
  
  So:
  - the group of (20-30) frequent symbols represent (or are made to look like) characters in the alphabet
  - the very limited (<10) group of rare symbols on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. represent the (medieval) planets or the zodiac signs
  
  I am not aware of any medieval work where celestial symbols represent the majority of the text.

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  Antonio García Jiménez > 07-07-2024, 02:32 PM

  Regarding the statement that the strange glyphs of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. represent the planets, I can say with complete certainty that this is not the case, given that these symbols were already known before the VM and there is no relationship whatsoever. Regarding whether they represent the zodiacal signs, I doubt that this is the case because although these did not yet exist when the VM, we would have seen them in calendars and astronomical tables of the time.
  
  I also do not know of any medieval codex in which the script is made up of celestial symbols. But the VM is so unique and singular in so many things that it could also be so in this one.

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  ReneZ > 08-07-2024, 09:41 AM

  Of course, your argument in the second paragraph could also apply to the first paragraph.
  
  The VM is so unique that the author(s) could easily have nivented new symbols for planets and/or zodiac signs.
  
  Just like they did for the writing in fact....

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  Antonio García Jiménez > 08-07-2024, 12:42 PM

  The author or authors invented a script. There's no doubt. But I highly doubt that they invented other planetary symbols (already existing at the time) or created zodiacal symbols.
  
  Although if it is as you say, it seems incongruous that we see in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. graphic representations along with characters that represent phonemes, sounds. I don't see it coherent. Medieval men had a different mentality than ours but theirs was coherent; They had their logic like we have ours.
  
  I believe that what we see in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. are all astronomical-astrological symbols. When interpreting the VM it would be useful if we agreed on some basic things. For example, in the very nature of the codex. I believe it is an astrological herbal, which explains many of its characteristics.

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  datagnosis > 08-07-2024, 02:02 PM

  Hi Antonio,
  
  I am new around here, and I have just found your thread yesterday. I admire your commitment to your idea and - as I read in one of your posts (I worked my way backwards for about 15 pages or so) - your willingness to share your knowledge with the sole purpose of figuring out this amazing enigma.
  
  While reading your idea of an astrological notation, it reminded me of something I read not along ago that mapped Greek letters to planets (7), zodiac signs (12), and elements (4 + 1=ether), thus 24 signs/letters. Since planets were assigned to vowels and signs were assigned to consonants, each syllable could represent a pair planet/sign, so maybe a couple of words (7 syllables) could determine a given zodiacal configuration. Also, Greek letters have a one-to-one correspondence to numbers, so they could also represent degrees. A sentence could spell out the positions of a chart.
  
  Anyway, here is my You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. Although it was written decades after the estimated date of the VM, I guess these ideas date from way back in the past. I hope it helps!

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  Antonio García Jiménez > 08-07-2024, 07:58 PM

  Thank you Datagnosis for your information about Agrippa and his occulta philosophia. Although not linked to the VM, Agrippa's ideas about magic and astrology do refer to something that is present in all medieval philosophy and that is relevant to the VM: the hidden forces of nature.
  
  My idea about the Voynich script is simple. It is a set of astronomical-astrological symbols that the authors combine following minimal rules. We see those strange glyphs and they don't tell us anything, but let's try to see it as they would see it. By combining these glyphs, they would see the sun, the moon, stars in different positions on the sphere and on the ecliptic, in different zodiacal signs.
  
  They see images and movement and form what look like words by combining those images using superimposed wheels on which the symbols are inscribed. For them it is like a game, but a game that is nourished by that medieval philosophy to which I alluded before. It is the hidden powers of the stars that create those rare herbs that we see.
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