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[Trinity] Questions about Trinity MS script
- [Trinity] Questions about Trinity MS script
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RE: [Trinity] Questions about Trinity MS script
Koen G > 12-05-2017, 09:45 PM
So I've been practicing some more on reading this text, it's quite rewarding. In the beginning I couldn't read a thing, then some words, now some half sentences. Though I'm still very far from Marco/Helmut level
Sometimes it's also hard to tell whether my reading is wrong or the text is just weird. For example, this plant on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. seems to have some anecdote about birds connected to it, but I can only half understand it:
"The name of the herb is sticados citrini (?). Some call it barba jovis. Some (erased). Some call this herb avium because once a bird put 8 of this herb in his nest. Something something weasel nest bird something something didn't know"
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RE: [Trinity] Questions about Trinity MS script
-JKP- > 12-05-2017, 10:11 PM
I can only pop in, don't have time to translate, but 73v Sticados arabicum is probably Lavandula stoechas, and 74r sticados is probably Sticados citrinum.
I vaguely recall a story about Noah's doves in connection with Sticados and darnit, I don't have time to look it up, I have to go. -
RE: [Trinity] Questions about Trinity MS script
-JKP- > 12-05-2017, 10:39 PM
I forgot to mention, the way Sticados citrina is drawn, it's also possible it might sometimes refer to Stachys citrina which is also found in some of the herbals. It would be easy to confuse the two by shape and by name. -
RE: [Trinity] Questions about Trinity MS script
MarcoP > 13-05-2017, 08:51 AM
(12-05-2017, 09:45 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.So I've been practicing some more on reading this text, it's quite rewarding. In the beginning I couldn't read a thing, then some words, now some half sentences. Though I'm still very far from Marco/Helmut level
Sometimes it's also hard to tell whether my reading is wrong or the text is just weird. For example, this plant on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. seems to have some anecdote about birds connected to it, but I can only half understand it:
"The name of the herb is sticados citrini (?). Some call it barba jovis. Some (erased). Some call this herb avium because once a bird put 8 of this herb in his nest. Something something weasel nest bird something something didn't know"
Hello Koen, I am amazed by how fast you learn!
It seems to me that the only bit you missed is the abbreviation that looks like a large apostrophe and stands for 'e' or a syllable containing 'e' (see attachment).
Transcription: Nomen herbe sticados citrinii. alii barba jovis vocant. alii ??? | alii vocant eam herba avium. quod quedam avis. in nido suo de hac herba ponit. | similiter et mustella in nido suo eodem facit. quod mustella et hec avis virtutem | eius agnoscunt. hec herba habet odorem quasi pomum [citronium - not visible in image detail]
Translation: The name of the herb is sticados citrinum. Some call it barba jovis. Some (erased). Some call it "herb of the birds" because a certain bird puts some of this herb in its nest. Similarly, also the weasel does the same in its nest, because the weasel and that bird know | its [of the plant] virtue. This plant has a smell almost of lemons
Thank you for pointing out this peculiar anecdote: something that could help in tracing sources for this part of the herbal.... -
RE: [Trinity] Questions about Trinity MS script
Koen G > 13-05-2017, 11:11 AM
Haha thanks Marco, I didn't know about that "e" abbreviation yet. I found it strangely specific already that the bird put 8 herbs in its nest
I'm going to make a small list of common abbreviations for myself, that should help since I guess a lot of them return often. Sometimes it looks like you just have to guess, for example I thought "qda" would be "quondam". It's probably a matter of getting to know the scribe's habits as well.
I agree that we should keep track of these lore tidbits, they might point us the right way eventually. -
RE: [Trinity] Questions about Trinity MS script
Koen G > 14-05-2017, 09:11 PM
How would you transcribe the first name of this plant? From fol. 75r.
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RE: [Trinity] Questions about Trinity MS script
Helmut Winkler > 15-05-2017, 07:44 AM
I think it is ortensis, the 2 is in most cases the et-abbr., but it is used as r as well, see e.g. five lines above in forte. -
RE: [Trinity] Questions about Trinity MS script
Koen G > 15-05-2017, 08:11 AM
Thanks, Helmut. But what about the word between "herbe" and "ortensis"? It looks like "cc" with a line on top. Since "hortensis" can mean something like "of the garden", I thought this "cc" had to be the first part of the name. -
RE: [Trinity] Questions about Trinity MS script
Helmut Winkler > 15-05-2017, 08:46 AM
cc with an abbr.-stroke is either circa or contra and I dont know what in this case, there is only the chance of trying to fiind an example which makes sense -
RE: [Trinity] Questions about Trinity MS script
-JKP- > 15-05-2017, 08:49 AM
The word between is the abbreviation for circa. They abbreviated it about three different ways but it is used to say, "This plant grows near _____." Hortensis is mainly used to refer to garden plants, cultivated plants. Domesticus is used for field plants (agricultural plants), agrestis for wild plants.
So, if you see herba c'c ortensis, it usually means it grows near cultivated (or disturbed) areas. This is true of many plants, they like ecosystems where the ground has been dug up and loosened.
Also, they will compare the leaves to many similar plants. For example, folis similar to iris, or similar to mint or portulaca, well known plants. This manuscript frequently refers to roots as c'ce9 croceus (which is not a reference to crocus, it refers to roots with tendrils that spread (like the common buttercup)).