28-12-2025, 12:23 AM
(This post was last modified: 28-12-2025, 12:24 AM by Stefan Wirtz_2.)
Across 3 pages now, I were not able to find the elephant in this room...
maybe that's my fault.
But you claim not to be a linguist, or a statistics guy, just plain a sociologist.
So I wonder why you start to translate into Latin and work with probabilities, counts and matches here:
Problem with the flood of AI "solutions" is that these AI tools are used to "proove" a wrong guess, feed such a theory with masses of follow-up wrong guesses and produce lots of wellsounding sentences to "explain" this "solution".
Yes, Bax made quite surely a wrong guess with Taurus.
You are overbidding him with another wrong guess, but thankfully do not try to base that with any AI solutions -- thanks for that.
Problem is: your guess is still unfounded and just based upon a feeling about these "stars".
Even if these are really images of grouped astronomical stars, commonly, but not everywhere known as Pleiades, there is no hint that VMS author(s) had anything in mind like
- noting their given names within the few label words
- writing down any links between these stars or giving a connection to the 3 label words
= this could mean anything, from "Pleiades" or any other specific cultural description for these stars, like "the sisters", "the seven", "the bright group" or even, "the grapes".
Could mean any of this, or just nothing.
To me, the directly accompanying 2 words read like "kapelkaya" and "keasa"/"keasya". I have reasons to be a bit more sure about this, but single words do not help very much at all with VMS.
Plain answer: no.
Well, and there it is, the only elephant in the room: it is not Latin.
You will find some ~20 "solutions" in the graveyard of non-solutions ("the list") and several failed Greek theories, which all just give proof that it is not Latin/Greek at all.
(By the way, as much as "9" anka abbreviation -us appears in the manuscript, this would mean most of those words are nominatives -- you will find not many Latin texts were the load of nominatives is such overwhelming)
Overlooking and ignoring this is the true `elephanting´ with Voynichese...
maybe that's my fault.
But you claim not to be a linguist, or a statistics guy, just plain a sociologist.
So I wonder why you start to translate into Latin and work with probabilities, counts and matches here:
(27-12-2025, 09:29 PM)MHTamdgidi_(Behrooz) wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[..]
I now begin with the “word” beside the seven-star image on f68r3. As you know it is transcribed wrongly on the VM browser, the last letter looking like a ‘9’ not an ‘o’. I render it in my preferred symbols that retain a sense of their visual appearance, 8oa29. It seems there has been a consensus that the image beside it represents Pleiades (the seven stars).
Botrus in Latin (and Greek) means cluster (of grapes, specifically). The 9-looking letter at the end as you know was a standard Latin abbreviation for -us (and alike). So the 8-looking letter is just B, the ‘o’ is just an ‘o’, and the letter looking like 2 is just an ‘r’ in the word, ending with ‘9’ for -us.
If this is what was meant by the “author” we have a clear indication of both a Latin writing present in abbreviations prevalent at that time. But such a reading, that perfectly matches the image, also hints at a ciphering effort.
[..]
Of the five letters, four perfectly correspond to Botrus, and the image is a perfect match. In my view, that word is meant to stand for Botrus, and can serve as a key to deciphering a lot in the manuscript, in text and in images.
Problem with the flood of AI "solutions" is that these AI tools are used to "proove" a wrong guess, feed such a theory with masses of follow-up wrong guesses and produce lots of wellsounding sentences to "explain" this "solution".
Quote:Stephen Bax had considered the word to be (in my view, wrongly) Taurus, and others have either followed his lead, or rejected it. In my reading it is not Taurus, but Botrus.[..]
Yes, Bax made quite surely a wrong guess with Taurus.
You are overbidding him with another wrong guess, but thankfully do not try to base that with any AI solutions -- thanks for that.
Problem is: your guess is still unfounded and just based upon a feeling about these "stars".
Even if these are really images of grouped astronomical stars, commonly, but not everywhere known as Pleiades, there is no hint that VMS author(s) had anything in mind like
- noting their given names within the few label words
- writing down any links between these stars or giving a connection to the 3 label words
= this could mean anything, from "Pleiades" or any other specific cultural description for these stars, like "the sisters", "the seven", "the bright group" or even, "the grapes".
Could mean any of this, or just nothing.
To me, the directly accompanying 2 words read like "kapelkaya" and "keasa"/"keasya". I have reasons to be a bit more sure about this, but single words do not help very much at all with VMS.
Quote:Perhaps it is the first word we can safely claim to have translated in the VM. Is it?Steep claim.
Plain answer: no.
Quote:I am not yet claiming anything about any other texts in the VM. I am focusing just on this word for now, and it hints at several findings. It is in Latin, uses standard abbreviations of its time, some letters are visually readable in a standard way (B and o). ‘9’ is the most widely used abbreviation in Medieval Latin, and 2 is a standard abbreviation for ‘r’ or phonetic ‘ur” [..]
Well, and there it is, the only elephant in the room: it is not Latin.
You will find some ~20 "solutions" in the graveyard of non-solutions ("the list") and several failed Greek theories, which all just give proof that it is not Latin/Greek at all.
(By the way, as much as "9" anka abbreviation -us appears in the manuscript, this would mean most of those words are nominatives -- you will find not many Latin texts were the load of nominatives is such overwhelming)
Overlooking and ignoring this is the true `elephanting´ with Voynichese...

