10-09-2024, 06:17 PM
[quote="Koen G" pid='61312' dateline='1725973428']
I just uploaded the first part of the third episode of Voynich Talk!
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Hi, Koen, congratulation on your video. I watched it with great interest and I feel I need to offer my opinion that would disprove two of the claims made in that video, mainly that the substitution for VM glyphs is not possible and that there is no language in the word with such a high predictability. And at the same time I would like to explain the high instance of EVA qo.
I can best illustrate the predictability with the Slovenian folk song that is used to teach children the various pronunciations of vowels in different Slovenian dialects. It is comprised with one sentence in different dialects, Translated into English as: The fly had flown on the wall, fly on the wall, fly on the wall
Priletela muha na zid, muha na zid, muha na zid.
Priletela muha na zid,
muha na zid.
Pralatala maha na zad, maha na zad, maha na zad.
Pralatala maha na zad,
maha na zad.
Preletele mehe ne zed, mehe ne zed, mehe ne zed.
Preletele mehe ne zed,
mehe ne zed.
Prilitili mihi ni zid, mihi ni zid, mihi ni zid.
Prilitili mihi ni zid,
mihi ni zid.
Prolotolo moho no zod, moho no zod, moho no zod.
Prolotolo moho no zod,
moho no zod.
Prulutulu muhu nu zud, muhu nu zud, muhu nu zud.
Prulutulu muhu nu zud,
muhu nu zud.
Priletela muha na zid
For those of you who want to know how it sounds, various version of this folk song could be found on YouTube, just look under Priletela muha na zid
The song is showing the richness of Slovenian sounds, where each vowel could be substituted with another vowel. Of course, this applies for the Old Slovenian and dialectal language and does not reflect Slovenian grammatical rule, but rather a possibility how to understand old dialects.
How about that for entropy!
Your rationalization of q and qo does not work, because that VM glyph is not q, but p. Together with o, it forms one of the most frequent Slovenian prefixes PO- which among other things is used to form perfective verbs, which can be in present, past and future tense. Such prefixed words can also be used for derivates, such as adjectives and nouns.
Back to the substitution: Voynich glyphs can be transcribed into Latin letters with one-to-one substitution, except for a few VM glyphs, like EVA m, p, f, which I read as il, sv, cv, with the SLO-VA alphabet and may or may not produce valid words. After that, another transcription alphabet is needed to transcribe the text into Slovenian. This is the trickiest part, because different writers used different letter combination for the same sounds, and many words overlap. The only way to compare the spelling is to use Latin one-to-one transcription for the common denominator. The Slovenian alphabet is closest to EVA.
The alphabet can be used for other languages as well, and might yield some meaningful words in different languages, although the meaning might be different.
And now, to your entropy argument. Thanks to Nobletar, I have started to experiment with entropy calculation. One-to-one transliteration (which is still not even 80% correct because of the ambiguous reading of VM glyphs, like minims, b, z etc.) comes to about h2 2.50 and with replace button, I can transform ZL transliteration into Slovenian text with h2 about 2.43. Various medieval Slovenian texts from the 16th century, which were already somewhat standardized, com to about h2 3.00. Since the VM lacks certain important glyphs, such as j and long s, and since w and y, and some i minims were replaced with u or v, and j and i, the rest of the transformation must be done manually. It is therefore easier to transform Slovenian text to VM-style. This lowers the h2 of medieval Slovenian texts to about 2.5. I am still working on the step-by-step manual transcription, however the number of the Slovenian words that can be translated with one-to-one substitution alone is very impressive and it is not just a coincidence.
Of course, the simplicity and simple substitution applies only to about one hundred unique words (including many most frequent words, such as DAM, DAR, DAL, POL, POT. Most of the words still have to be adjusted according to grammatical rules for the missing vowels, or consonants in some cases, for the pronunciation, for the sound changes, and for the updated spelling and in some cases inappropriate or changed. suffixes. Since the words in the VM text are in the grammatical forms, they are not found in dictionaries, and even in the written texts they are hard to find in those particular forms and spellings.
In short, language is to complicated to be analyzed with computers.
I just uploaded the first part of the third episode of Voynich Talk!
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Hi, Koen, congratulation on your video. I watched it with great interest and I feel I need to offer my opinion that would disprove two of the claims made in that video, mainly that the substitution for VM glyphs is not possible and that there is no language in the word with such a high predictability. And at the same time I would like to explain the high instance of EVA qo.
I can best illustrate the predictability with the Slovenian folk song that is used to teach children the various pronunciations of vowels in different Slovenian dialects. It is comprised with one sentence in different dialects, Translated into English as: The fly had flown on the wall, fly on the wall, fly on the wall
Priletela muha na zid, muha na zid, muha na zid.
Priletela muha na zid,
muha na zid.
Pralatala maha na zad, maha na zad, maha na zad.
Pralatala maha na zad,
maha na zad.
Preletele mehe ne zed, mehe ne zed, mehe ne zed.
Preletele mehe ne zed,
mehe ne zed.
Prilitili mihi ni zid, mihi ni zid, mihi ni zid.
Prilitili mihi ni zid,
mihi ni zid.
Prolotolo moho no zod, moho no zod, moho no zod.
Prolotolo moho no zod,
moho no zod.
Prulutulu muhu nu zud, muhu nu zud, muhu nu zud.
Prulutulu muhu nu zud,
muhu nu zud.
Priletela muha na zid
For those of you who want to know how it sounds, various version of this folk song could be found on YouTube, just look under Priletela muha na zid
The song is showing the richness of Slovenian sounds, where each vowel could be substituted with another vowel. Of course, this applies for the Old Slovenian and dialectal language and does not reflect Slovenian grammatical rule, but rather a possibility how to understand old dialects.
How about that for entropy!
Your rationalization of q and qo does not work, because that VM glyph is not q, but p. Together with o, it forms one of the most frequent Slovenian prefixes PO- which among other things is used to form perfective verbs, which can be in present, past and future tense. Such prefixed words can also be used for derivates, such as adjectives and nouns.
Back to the substitution: Voynich glyphs can be transcribed into Latin letters with one-to-one substitution, except for a few VM glyphs, like EVA m, p, f, which I read as il, sv, cv, with the SLO-VA alphabet and may or may not produce valid words. After that, another transcription alphabet is needed to transcribe the text into Slovenian. This is the trickiest part, because different writers used different letter combination for the same sounds, and many words overlap. The only way to compare the spelling is to use Latin one-to-one transcription for the common denominator. The Slovenian alphabet is closest to EVA.
The alphabet can be used for other languages as well, and might yield some meaningful words in different languages, although the meaning might be different.
And now, to your entropy argument. Thanks to Nobletar, I have started to experiment with entropy calculation. One-to-one transliteration (which is still not even 80% correct because of the ambiguous reading of VM glyphs, like minims, b, z etc.) comes to about h2 2.50 and with replace button, I can transform ZL transliteration into Slovenian text with h2 about 2.43. Various medieval Slovenian texts from the 16th century, which were already somewhat standardized, com to about h2 3.00. Since the VM lacks certain important glyphs, such as j and long s, and since w and y, and some i minims were replaced with u or v, and j and i, the rest of the transformation must be done manually. It is therefore easier to transform Slovenian text to VM-style. This lowers the h2 of medieval Slovenian texts to about 2.5. I am still working on the step-by-step manual transcription, however the number of the Slovenian words that can be translated with one-to-one substitution alone is very impressive and it is not just a coincidence.
Of course, the simplicity and simple substitution applies only to about one hundred unique words (including many most frequent words, such as DAM, DAR, DAL, POL, POT. Most of the words still have to be adjusted according to grammatical rules for the missing vowels, or consonants in some cases, for the pronunciation, for the sound changes, and for the updated spelling and in some cases inappropriate or changed. suffixes. Since the words in the VM text are in the grammatical forms, they are not found in dictionaries, and even in the written texts they are hard to find in those particular forms and spellings.
In short, language is to complicated to be analyzed with computers.