12-07-2024, 11:02 AM
[quote="ReneZ" pid='60492' dateline='1720736977']
The main point of my three brief arguments is that one needs to keep in mind what is part of the hypothesis.
[Elements of the hypothesis cannot be used as arguments let alone evidence.
Part of the hypothesis discussed here are:
- the list of symbols in the Voynich MS represent some specific sounds
- the language underlying the text is old (now lost or not?) Turkish or some cognate
Evidence should consist of consistent and convincing translation of a significant part of the text.
Arguments about the language being agglutinative, or words starting or not with certain characters are part of the hypothesis, and are not evidence.
On the other hand, counter arguments showing that these points are used inconsistently is valid counter-evidence.
So in the present situation it mainly comes down to whether the partial translations (individual rare words) are convincing or not.]
Dear Rene,
The hypothesis, its details, and the evidence are different things as we all know, and we already explained everything where it should be without mixing them up.
Our evidence is usefully evident and demonstrated in every sentence on every line of 240 pages. If what you mean is translating all 240 pages into today's language, the main difficulties here are as follows;
1- Since I have to devote only my free time to this work, focusing on these translations on holidays and when I do not have any other work slows down the work.
2- The majority of linguists working in the field of Turcology are not even aware that such a manuscript exists in the world. In addition, those who are aware of this often cannot spare time for new work, as they are busy with teaching existing knowledge to students rather than research at universities. Probably more than a million of the manuscripts written in Turkish have not yet been studied by any researcher. The fact that there is no money to be made from this work turns people away from linguistics research. But this is not an excuse, it is a reality. Of course, such a reality will not prevent us from doing our job, it will only help us understand that the support we expect will not come quickly.
3- Inside of some foreign words in Turkish sentences in VM (possibly Latin or Greek words) slowing the process of translating all the 240 pages is more than just a job that can be completed with my effort. At this point, the support of experts who know Latin and Greek may also be needed. So this job is a team effort job for sure. That's why I'm looking for researcher support here on this "voynich.ninja" page, and when that happens, the translation of the pages into modern language will probably speed up.
4- Analyzing and trying to understand the abbreviated words used in sentences is also a task that takes additional time. Naturally, these sections show that we are not faced with texts whose translation work can proceed quickly. However, even if it takes time, these sections can be read as full sentence analyses are examined with different alternatives and with linguists.
However, some full pages and more than a hundred sentences have been read so far. This is not a finished study and the numbers are and will continue to increase with each passing year. The fact that the vocabulary found in the read sections is found in known dictionaries (so that these dictionaries also include historical dictionaries) is also first-degree evidence of the main overlap. Moreover, the fact that word roots and suffixes overlap and that some words have not changed their phonetic form in 600 years has been very important findings.
If we are going to talk about a consistent translation of a significant part of the texts, you must first understand that the texts are readable in Turkish with every sentence for 240 pages. But when it comes to completing all 240 pages of translations, the slowing down reasons I have mentioned above will need to be eliminated and this is a process that will take time too.
The language is agglutinative. It is just one part of the study. Once this is shown, it is informed to other researchers about the languages to show them that are not agglutinative are no longer candidates. So Indo-European languages are no longer candidates for sure.
The fact that some structural overlaps that are only specific to Turkish have been demonstrated has also shown that all other languages are no longer candidates for Vm texts.
Linguists have not yet come up with a counter-argument to refute the overlap and evidence we have put forward, including the sections where we explain word roots and suffixes. If such an argument comes, we consider it and review the relevant section of the study. However, I don't think such an argument will come. Because each sentence translation we have produced has been presented in such high detail that it includes measurements in many details such as whether the sentence structures have changed and whether the semantic integrity has been damaged by taking into account possible phonetic variations.
I will expect counterarguments to come from linguists and with logical questions and examples.
We are not talking about a lost language here. Here, we are talking about a local dialect or a Turkish language in minority dialects in a geography we have determined.
Especially local rare nomenclatures have been identified in the translations. For example, some plant and moss names are among these. This points to the Black Sea and Thrace regions, which, as you know, are geographically adjacent.
Our study has proven the Turkish language content of VM texts. However, to understand this, the linguists and researchers who will examine our study must be knowledgeable people. The fact that people who are not equipped with information have an opinion without knowledge slows down the increase in awareness of the fact that these texts have Turkish content.
The main point of my three brief arguments is that one needs to keep in mind what is part of the hypothesis.
[Elements of the hypothesis cannot be used as arguments let alone evidence.
Part of the hypothesis discussed here are:
- the list of symbols in the Voynich MS represent some specific sounds
- the language underlying the text is old (now lost or not?) Turkish or some cognate
Evidence should consist of consistent and convincing translation of a significant part of the text.
Arguments about the language being agglutinative, or words starting or not with certain characters are part of the hypothesis, and are not evidence.
On the other hand, counter arguments showing that these points are used inconsistently is valid counter-evidence.
So in the present situation it mainly comes down to whether the partial translations (individual rare words) are convincing or not.]
Dear Rene,
The hypothesis, its details, and the evidence are different things as we all know, and we already explained everything where it should be without mixing them up.
Our evidence is usefully evident and demonstrated in every sentence on every line of 240 pages. If what you mean is translating all 240 pages into today's language, the main difficulties here are as follows;
1- Since I have to devote only my free time to this work, focusing on these translations on holidays and when I do not have any other work slows down the work.
2- The majority of linguists working in the field of Turcology are not even aware that such a manuscript exists in the world. In addition, those who are aware of this often cannot spare time for new work, as they are busy with teaching existing knowledge to students rather than research at universities. Probably more than a million of the manuscripts written in Turkish have not yet been studied by any researcher. The fact that there is no money to be made from this work turns people away from linguistics research. But this is not an excuse, it is a reality. Of course, such a reality will not prevent us from doing our job, it will only help us understand that the support we expect will not come quickly.
3- Inside of some foreign words in Turkish sentences in VM (possibly Latin or Greek words) slowing the process of translating all the 240 pages is more than just a job that can be completed with my effort. At this point, the support of experts who know Latin and Greek may also be needed. So this job is a team effort job for sure. That's why I'm looking for researcher support here on this "voynich.ninja" page, and when that happens, the translation of the pages into modern language will probably speed up.
4- Analyzing and trying to understand the abbreviated words used in sentences is also a task that takes additional time. Naturally, these sections show that we are not faced with texts whose translation work can proceed quickly. However, even if it takes time, these sections can be read as full sentence analyses are examined with different alternatives and with linguists.
However, some full pages and more than a hundred sentences have been read so far. This is not a finished study and the numbers are and will continue to increase with each passing year. The fact that the vocabulary found in the read sections is found in known dictionaries (so that these dictionaries also include historical dictionaries) is also first-degree evidence of the main overlap. Moreover, the fact that word roots and suffixes overlap and that some words have not changed their phonetic form in 600 years has been very important findings.
If we are going to talk about a consistent translation of a significant part of the texts, you must first understand that the texts are readable in Turkish with every sentence for 240 pages. But when it comes to completing all 240 pages of translations, the slowing down reasons I have mentioned above will need to be eliminated and this is a process that will take time too.
The language is agglutinative. It is just one part of the study. Once this is shown, it is informed to other researchers about the languages to show them that are not agglutinative are no longer candidates. So Indo-European languages are no longer candidates for sure.
The fact that some structural overlaps that are only specific to Turkish have been demonstrated has also shown that all other languages are no longer candidates for Vm texts.
Linguists have not yet come up with a counter-argument to refute the overlap and evidence we have put forward, including the sections where we explain word roots and suffixes. If such an argument comes, we consider it and review the relevant section of the study. However, I don't think such an argument will come. Because each sentence translation we have produced has been presented in such high detail that it includes measurements in many details such as whether the sentence structures have changed and whether the semantic integrity has been damaged by taking into account possible phonetic variations.
I will expect counterarguments to come from linguists and with logical questions and examples.
We are not talking about a lost language here. Here, we are talking about a local dialect or a Turkish language in minority dialects in a geography we have determined.
Especially local rare nomenclatures have been identified in the translations. For example, some plant and moss names are among these. This points to the Black Sea and Thrace regions, which, as you know, are geographically adjacent.
Our study has proven the Turkish language content of VM texts. However, to understand this, the linguists and researchers who will examine our study must be knowledgeable people. The fact that people who are not equipped with information have an opinion without knowledge slows down the increase in awareness of the fact that these texts have Turkish content.