26-09-2022, 11:31 PM
(26-09-2022, 07:55 PM)Juan_Sali wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I have a question about the symbol q
I created the following table based on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
It shows the number of times a symbol preceeds and follows q inside voynichese words, aiin is compacted as well as P that you transcribe as iko.
The symbol q is almost always at the begining of the words and is followed by the symbol o o. Is it compatible with turkish?
Dear Sali,
You asked a good question. Thank you for the question. Hopefully our answer will be self explanatory for you and others.
First of all, let me state that the word, and syllable structures you see are largely compatible with Turkish.
You are making an evaluation error here because you do not know Turkish. In Turkish, these syllables sometimes have a meaning content as a word, and sometimes they can be word suffixes (according to the meaning of the word in front of them) due to the place where they are connected to the word. In other words, sometimes they function as a word and sometimes a word suffix. In other words, it may not be always expected to have meaning on its own.
The term "word aiin" is a false expression. Because this syllable is not always a word. When written alone, it reads "AM". Of course, there are meanings as words. But if this syllable is at the end of a word, it is sometimes the second component of a compound word and sometimes it is a word suffix. So it is wrong to always describe it as a separate word.
Another issue is that the author writes the A and E voices with the same sign. In this case, this word "AM" that you read in the form of "aiin" also has the form of "EM" for VM (based on ATA).
You can see the meaning content of the word EM with the word suffix "-MEK" on the following dictionary pages.
EM-mek > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
The word "AM" by itself means "female mating organ". In other words, this word also means "female mating canal, reproductive tract". In short, the word "vagina" used in English is the equivalent word.
However, in some Turkic dialects, the word "EM" has the same meaning (vagina). At the same time, the word "EM" also means "medicine" and "ointment" in some dialects in Old Turkish.
EM > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
But if you put this "-AM" and "-EM" syllable at the end of some words, it will add the meaning of expressing "first person singular" to that word.
Moreover, the VM author breaks the spelling rules and writes some end syllables separately from that word. Therefore, although these seem like words on their own, when they are read together with the word in front of them, it is understood that they are a word suffix. This writing style was chosen especially to make it difficult to read. This particular alphabet was created for the same purpose. Because the author must have wanted the texts to be as difficult to read as possible.
So, Words, you read like "aiin" (we read as "am/em/ağn") is not compacted. As well as our "iko" is not P. The sign 4 which you read as the q symbol is the D sound for us.
Normally, the letter D (4/Dört/four) is not expected to be at the end of the word. If this word is at the end it may be mostly due to dialect difference. Or that word may have passed into the Turkish language from another language.
For example, one of the meanings of the word OT means ATEŞ (fire, fever, heat) in Turkish.
However, the word OT also has meanings such as "FIRE", "SMOKE", "MEDICINE", "GUNDOW", "POISON". Its meaning is determined according to how it is connected to the previous word or how it is used in a sentencetence.
OT > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
OD > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
But the VM author didn't just use the word O with only its O sound equivalent. He also used the same sign for the Ö sound. In other words, the word O4 (OD) may also be used in the sense of ÖD (ÖT) in some sentences. In this case, the meaning content changes.
ÖD > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
As you can see in that link, the meaning content of the word "ÖD" in the "Divanü Lügati't-Türk" (a manuscript dictionary dating from 1071-74) is as follows.
the meaning of ÖD
gall
hole in wall and tree
time, time; season, weather
self, own
time, time
cattle, ox
hole, pit
stream between mountains
creek between two mountains
road between two mountains
Here, the T sound at the and was transformed into the D sound (OT > OD) in some dialects, and in this way the word OT/ÖT became pronounced as OD and/or ÖD.
You say that the symbol 4 is always followed by the symbol O. However, examining the words here with this approach is one of the many mistakes made very often.
In some of the old Turkish texts, there were cases such as the A and E sound being expressed with a single letter. And same as the O and Ö sounds with another single letter. So this situation is not unique to VM texts alone.
As a result, trying to classify the words you want to examine by making tables in this way can be applied for Indo-European language words. But it is not applicable for Turkish. Here, due to the special and difficult-to-read writing style of the VM texts, it will be necessary to evaluate only and only the words in the form of phrases and sentences with the word in front of them.
Your use of apps like "voynichese" is misleading. Because, for example, you read a single or multiple syllable character as if it were a single letter. Just like the phonetic sign you thought was P. For this reason, the table you have already made is wrong and misleading. Forget the Voynichese app and EVA tables.
There are about 180 text marks in VM pages. If you don't believe, please separate them and count them. How many letters are in the alphabets you know? Let's say there are 30 or 33 letters at most. 180 - 30 = 150
With what sound value do you read the remaining 150 text/letter signs?
We read it all. Because these are syllabic characters. Some of these are stand-alone words. And we analyzed schematically and logically how simple sound signs are combined and how they make syllable sounds.
First, please discard "the familiar templates" you have, and use the ATA alphabet transcription we have provided for you. Thus, you will not need to memorize all 180 characters in terms of phonetic equivalent.
Another problem is that you mistake different text signs as the same sign. This is a problem stemming from not examining the typeface correctly and in detail. Unfortunately, the tables you used also contain this problem. The way to solve all these problems is to examine the syllable characters carefully.
The same is true for syllables and others that we read as SAM/SEM or -SAM/-SEM etc. They are both lexical and suffixes, and yet they have multiple semantic contents. For this reason, the only way of reading that will confirm these and all that has been written throughout 240 pages is to examine and explain them all in a sentence by sentence. If you are going to look at it individually, you should look at the photographic structure. Wich we have already presented it too.
SEM > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
The word SEM means "medicine, medicine making, cure" in Old Turkish. The word SEM / SAM has other meanings as well. At the same time, the -SEM / -SAM syllable at the end of the word is loaded with another function as a word suffix. Etc..etc.
Thanks
