24-05-2022, 02:30 PM
THE
&
ISSUE
I will now point some likewise quote from another 15th century Turkish manuscript from some academic works. Even if you can't read or understand them, I share them to you to see text patterns footographically so that you can see their structural status and sound endings.
Please note that the dialect of the texts I shared below is fully known, and their analysis and translation into today's language by linguists was completed a long time ago. Even if we haven't been able to determine the dialect in VM texts yet, the sharing below will provide some information for researchers who have studied VM word- structures well and will allow them to see overlaps.
Academician Ms. Gülnaz Çetinkaya, in her academic article titled “Symbols in Dede Korkut Stories” published in 2015 (on page 246), has written the following, by referring to the D. Yıldırım's 2002 study and write that;
"The frequencies of the words used in Dede Korkut Stories represent the cultural understanding of the period when the stories were created or written down. D. Yıldırım gives the following information about the creation period and environment of the stories: "It is understood that the texts of the copies that we have received were known or were written in the field of Turkey between the second half of the 15th century and the first half of the 16th century. However, the archaic copy, which is the source of these texts, is dated to the earliest V.-VIII. It can be assumed that it was written between the centuries. The old bottom copy is dated IX.-XIV. it was changed from a copy written in Uyghur script to a new script [to Turkish alphabet with Arabic letters] between the centuries, in the fields of Khwarezm or Kashgar; we can save. XIV-XVI. I think they were copied in the centuries.” (Yıldırım 2002: 164-165)
The Dede Korkut Stories and informations that researchers working on are mostly collected from the Vatican and the Dresden copy of this manuscripts. (Yetişkin 1997)
(It was not known how the manuscripts in Ottoman libraries were smuggled to Europe and America until today. As I mentioned earlier, we can now predict how they were lost, and we will show clues and-or some evidence to support our strong predictions in our own written book (using the methods used by science and referring to historical events and dates). Why would the Vatican want to have a manuscript of Turkish folk tales? Moreover, there is no evidence that the bookseller Voynich or any other booksellers sold these works to the Vatican. However, there is no evidence that the Ottoman libraries and-or the sultans donated them to the Vatican too. The available data will show that the trade of second-hand booksellers can reach far beyond the numbers, volume and area estimated today.)
So, I am sharing some paragraphs from that Turkish manuscript of the 15th century, and my aim is to illustrate word reduplications (repeat spellings of the same word and end-of-line and end-of-line phonemes, and frequently used structures such as SAM/SEM, etc.) by pointing them with different colors to see easy. The following paragraphs are excerpted from different pages of this 15th century manuscript containing the Dede Korkut Stories.
And you can see the sound forms at the end of the last words at the end of the line. Moreover, if you examine these paragraphs quoted from different pages of the same old manuscript, just as you examine the Voynich texts, you may also think that some of them were written in a different language. However, they were written in the same language (in Turkish). You may think that some of them were written in a different language is just because the suffixes have changed due to the change in the form. So, for example, when you write in the third person singular aorist tense instead of the first person singular past tense, the word suffixes change accordingly. The same is true of the Voynich texts. Probably, some researchers may have mistaken and think those parts looks like different languages. All these are not easily understandable for those who do not know the lexical structure of the Turkish language, that's for sure.
Now look at the texts. And please pay special attention to the parts which marked by myself with different colors. For example, pay special attention to the sections where the letters SAM/SEM,
and-or SAIIN/SAIN/SEİN (SAN/SEN) come together, the end-of-line sounds and word repetitions, and the frequency of the words SU/SÜ
in the texts.
(Note 1: Seeing SU/SÜ as SI/Sİ in some dialects is common among different Turkish dialects both in the ancient period and today.)
(Note 2: SUM/SUM sound change can take the form of SIM/SİM according to the phonetic harmony of the vowel in front of the word. Likewise, the form of SUN/SÜN can take the form of SIN/SİN according to the vowel harmony before it. they change their sound forms according to their harmony. This is known as the vowel harmony rule in Turkish. These are already present in the natural harmony of the language and are generally familiar.)
(Note 3. Additionally, I have shown the first letter Y of words starting with the Y sound in a different color so you can see the diversity of these words and the frequency of words starting with Y in the texts.)
(Note 4: Some of you will remember that by showing a modern Turkish text here, I marked the parts containing the SAM/SEM
sound with a blue mark.
Please see: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
In other words, I showed a similar situation in a modern Turkish text before, and now we make similar markings in one of the 15th century manuscripts.)
Here are the 15th century texts I mentioned:
Sam yilleri esmedin Kazan kulağum çınlar
Sarımsak otu yimedin Kazan içim göyinür
Saru yılan sokmadın ağça tenüm kalkar şişer (Ergin 1997:164)
Ağaç ağaç dir isem sana erilenme ağaç
Mekke ile Medinenün kapısı ağaç
Musa Kelimün asası ağaç
Böyük böyük suların köprüsi ağaç
Kara kara denizlerin gimisi ağaç
Şah-ı merdan Alinün Düldülinün eyeri ağaç
Zülfikarun kını-y-ile kabzası ağaç
Şah Hasan-ile Hüseynün bişigi ağaç
Eger erdür eger avratdur korhusı ağaç
Başın ala bakar olsam başsuz ağaç
Dibün ala bakar olsam dipsüz ağaç….. (Ergin 1997:109)
Karşu yatan kara tağı sorar olsam yaylak kimün
Sovuk sovuk sularını sorar olsam içit kimün
Tavla tavla şahbaz atları sorar olsam binit kimün
Katar katar develeri sorar olsam şölen kimün
Karalu göklü otağı sorar olsam kölge kimün (Ergin 1997:138-139)
Karşu yatan kara tağları
Senden sonra men neylerem
Yaylar olsam menüm gorum olsun
Sovuk sovuk sularun
İçer olsam menüm kanum olsun
Altun akçan harcayur olsam menüm kefenüm olsun
Tavla tavla şahbaz atun menüm tabutum olsun
Senden sonra bir yiğidi
Sevüp varsam bile yatsam
Ala yılan olup meni soksun (Ergin 1997:183)
İti kibi güv güv iden Çerkez hırslu
Küçücük tonuz şölenlü
Bir torba saman döşeklü
Yarım kerpiç yasduklu
Yonma ağaç tanrılu
Köpegüm kafir…… ( Ergin 1997: 238)
Mere kız ne ağlarsın ne buzlarsın ağa diyü
Yandı bağrum göyindi içüm
Meger senün ağan yok olupdur
Yüregüne kaynar yağlar koyulupdur
Kara bağrun sarsılupdur
Ağa deyü ne ağlarsın ne buzlarsın
Yandı bağrum göyindi içüm
Karşu yatan kara tağı sorar olsam yaylak kimün
Sovuk sovuk sularını sorar olsam içüt kimün (Source: Ergin 1998:138)
[Source: Çetinkaya, Gülnaz. “Symbols in Dede Korkut Stories”, Hacettepe University Institute of Social Sciences Department of Turkish Language and Literature. Ph. D. Dissertation. Ankara,2015. <You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.>]
Thanks,
I will now point some likewise quote from another 15th century Turkish manuscript from some academic works. Even if you can't read or understand them, I share them to you to see text patterns footographically so that you can see their structural status and sound endings.
Please note that the dialect of the texts I shared below is fully known, and their analysis and translation into today's language by linguists was completed a long time ago. Even if we haven't been able to determine the dialect in VM texts yet, the sharing below will provide some information for researchers who have studied VM word- structures well and will allow them to see overlaps.
Academician Ms. Gülnaz Çetinkaya, in her academic article titled “Symbols in Dede Korkut Stories” published in 2015 (on page 246), has written the following, by referring to the D. Yıldırım's 2002 study and write that;
"The frequencies of the words used in Dede Korkut Stories represent the cultural understanding of the period when the stories were created or written down. D. Yıldırım gives the following information about the creation period and environment of the stories: "It is understood that the texts of the copies that we have received were known or were written in the field of Turkey between the second half of the 15th century and the first half of the 16th century. However, the archaic copy, which is the source of these texts, is dated to the earliest V.-VIII. It can be assumed that it was written between the centuries. The old bottom copy is dated IX.-XIV. it was changed from a copy written in Uyghur script to a new script [to Turkish alphabet with Arabic letters] between the centuries, in the fields of Khwarezm or Kashgar; we can save. XIV-XVI. I think they were copied in the centuries.” (Yıldırım 2002: 164-165)
The Dede Korkut Stories and informations that researchers working on are mostly collected from the Vatican and the Dresden copy of this manuscripts. (Yetişkin 1997)
(It was not known how the manuscripts in Ottoman libraries were smuggled to Europe and America until today. As I mentioned earlier, we can now predict how they were lost, and we will show clues and-or some evidence to support our strong predictions in our own written book (using the methods used by science and referring to historical events and dates). Why would the Vatican want to have a manuscript of Turkish folk tales? Moreover, there is no evidence that the bookseller Voynich or any other booksellers sold these works to the Vatican. However, there is no evidence that the Ottoman libraries and-or the sultans donated them to the Vatican too. The available data will show that the trade of second-hand booksellers can reach far beyond the numbers, volume and area estimated today.)
So, I am sharing some paragraphs from that Turkish manuscript of the 15th century, and my aim is to illustrate word reduplications (repeat spellings of the same word and end-of-line and end-of-line phonemes, and frequently used structures such as SAM/SEM, etc.) by pointing them with different colors to see easy. The following paragraphs are excerpted from different pages of this 15th century manuscript containing the Dede Korkut Stories.
And you can see the sound forms at the end of the last words at the end of the line. Moreover, if you examine these paragraphs quoted from different pages of the same old manuscript, just as you examine the Voynich texts, you may also think that some of them were written in a different language. However, they were written in the same language (in Turkish). You may think that some of them were written in a different language is just because the suffixes have changed due to the change in the form. So, for example, when you write in the third person singular aorist tense instead of the first person singular past tense, the word suffixes change accordingly. The same is true of the Voynich texts. Probably, some researchers may have mistaken and think those parts looks like different languages. All these are not easily understandable for those who do not know the lexical structure of the Turkish language, that's for sure.
Now look at the texts. And please pay special attention to the parts which marked by myself with different colors. For example, pay special attention to the sections where the letters SAM/SEM,
(Note 1: Seeing SU/SÜ as SI/Sİ in some dialects is common among different Turkish dialects both in the ancient period and today.)
(Note 2: SUM/SUM sound change can take the form of SIM/SİM according to the phonetic harmony of the vowel in front of the word. Likewise, the form of SUN/SÜN can take the form of SIN/SİN according to the vowel harmony before it. they change their sound forms according to their harmony. This is known as the vowel harmony rule in Turkish. These are already present in the natural harmony of the language and are generally familiar.)
(Note 3. Additionally, I have shown the first letter Y of words starting with the Y sound in a different color so you can see the diversity of these words and the frequency of words starting with Y in the texts.)
(Note 4: Some of you will remember that by showing a modern Turkish text here, I marked the parts containing the SAM/SEM
Please see: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
In other words, I showed a similar situation in a modern Turkish text before, and now we make similar markings in one of the 15th century manuscripts.)
Here are the 15th century texts I mentioned:
Sam yilleri esmedin Kazan kulağum çınlar
Sarımsak otu yimedin Kazan içim göyinür
Saru yılan sokmadın ağça tenüm kalkar şişer (Ergin 1997:164)
Ağaç ağaç dir isem sana erilenme ağaç
Mekke ile Medinenün kapısı ağaç
Musa Kelimün asası ağaç
Böyük böyük suların köprüsi ağaç
Kara kara denizlerin gimisi ağaç
Şah-ı merdan Alinün Düldülinün eyeri ağaç
Zülfikarun kını-y-ile kabzası ağaç
Şah Hasan-ile Hüseynün bişigi ağaç
Eger erdür eger avratdur korhusı ağaç
Başın ala bakar olsam başsuz ağaç
Dibün ala bakar olsam dipsüz ağaç….. (Ergin 1997:109)
Karşu yatan kara tağı sorar olsam yaylak kimün
Sovuk sovuk sularını sorar olsam içit kimün
Tavla tavla şahbaz atları sorar olsam binit kimün
Katar katar develeri sorar olsam şölen kimün
Karalu göklü otağı sorar olsam kölge kimün (Ergin 1997:138-139)
Karşu yatan kara tağları
Senden sonra men neylerem
Yaylar olsam menüm gorum olsun
Sovuk sovuk sularun
İçer olsam menüm kanum olsun
Altun akçan harcayur olsam menüm kefenüm olsun
Tavla tavla şahbaz atun menüm tabutum olsun
Senden sonra bir yiğidi
Sevüp varsam bile yatsam
Ala yılan olup meni soksun (Ergin 1997:183)
İti kibi güv güv iden Çerkez hırslu
Küçücük tonuz şölenlü
Bir torba saman döşeklü
Yarım kerpiç yasduklu
Yonma ağaç tanrılu
Köpegüm kafir…… ( Ergin 1997: 238)
Mere kız ne ağlarsın ne buzlarsın ağa diyü
Yandı bağrum göyindi içüm
Meger senün ağan yok olupdur
Yüregüne kaynar yağlar koyulupdur
Kara bağrun sarsılupdur
Ağa deyü ne ağlarsın ne buzlarsın
Yandı bağrum göyindi içüm
Karşu yatan kara tağı sorar olsam yaylak kimün
Sovuk sovuk sularını sorar olsam içüt kimün (Source: Ergin 1998:138)
[Source: Çetinkaya, Gülnaz. “Symbols in Dede Korkut Stories”, Hacettepe University Institute of Social Sciences Department of Turkish Language and Literature. Ph. D. Dissertation. Ankara,2015. <You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.>]
Thanks,