The Voynich Ninja

(01-07-2016, 12:45 AM)Searcher Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

The left “stream”

Cavum per nos videretur ratione

limitum iteraturum labem.

The cave is seen by us through reason.
 a stain of the paths to be repeated

I translate it as a whole sentense. Is it correct?
The hollow renewing (iterating) ruin (collapse, distruction) would be seen by (before) us in the way of limits (paths) 

 

The source of the left “stream”

Ingeretur laedendum

The thing which must be hurt is carried on
(Ingeretur - it is carried on
Laedendum - thing which must be struck / injured / hurt)

I agree. In general, as for me, the more permissible variant:
The thing will be brought (cerried, given) which must be disturbed (broken, hurt).

 The right “stream”

Ingenitum 

Great / large

Actually, it is an adjective in neutral gender.
The congenital (inherent, inborn) thing.

To the right from the center

Terrae ros?

inorare (honorare),

non via/is

autem

intras (interius)

nonum

limitem

Dew of the earth
To honor
not by the roads
however
you enter
the ninth
path

 It is difficult for understanding, mostly, because of the first line interpretation, looking at it, I hardly understand whether there are two words or it is only one (daral or dar al). Otherwise:

Terrarius (terrerius) - You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. or You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

inorare,

non viis

autem

intras

nonum

limitem

To edge Terrestrial, 

however, 

not by the roads

you enter

the ninth path (limit)

The external circle
1.    In genere hora(e) natum letum ratione rotarum locandum (legandum) locatur (legitur) individum intraturum (interiturum) locatum (locutum, incitum, legatum, lucidum) ingeritur (in-cratere?) oritur  (oratione) incertorum tritorum nigraturum teritorium? inquod reditur (rotator, rotatione) lusum (insum, osque) inscrutatur inde ros obsecras natura (latore, notore) insertura
 
1. In the family of/in the hour, one born with understanding of the wheels must be located. A thing, indivisible (individum - neuter substantive adjective) which is to be entered is placed at a location. It is carried upon, it rises (oritur), of doubtful rubbed-away things in which it is called back, a game. It is searched/examined (inscrutatur) in which you, the dew, beg with planted nature.

And, finally, the most problematic part. I doubt whether I can translate it in full. On my opinion, no serious mistake must appear there, in any segment of the text. If some part of a sentence or some word is non correct, it must be revised using another acceptable and possible alternatives.
1. In the origin/nature of the Time (With respect to the Time/Hour) the decease which must be chosen with the way of vicissitude is located...
or: 1. In the origin/nature of the Time (With respect to the Time/Hour) the decease which must be located with the way of vicissitude is chosen...
indivisible dwindling (dying) heritage (bequeathed) become filled, grow...
the darkening territory? in which revel (merriment) returns (appears) is examined, therefore (from there) (possibly, "the darkening territory returns and the speech (or enter) is examined, therefore...")
 RS? (al) you ask (entreat for) with the binding (implanting) nature. 

I must say that I have no idea what is that al. This word behaves strange all over the text.
Are my translations correct?

You have very great Latin skills! And you're right, I confused "ingenitum" with "ingentum" (great/large) . If you translate the variants that you suggest, then you are completely correct with your translations - very impressive!

(01-07-2016, 11:29 PM)Dolokhov Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You have very great Latin skills! And you're right, I confused "ingenitum" with "ingentum" (great/large) . If you translate the variants that you suggest, then you are completely correct with your translations - very impressive!

Thank you, I hope so!

I must confess that some examples of my interpretation with their alternatives, as "natum" and "letum" confuse me and make me doubt, but, from the other side, many another examples confuse me much more, but in quite the other way, when I get the common context of them.
Now I want to present my observation concerning three separate notes from different folios of the VMs in order to compare their sense. It is notable that these notes are located, on my view, in the important places of the manuscript: the first page (f1r), the last page (f116v) and the Rosettes page.
These notes:
1. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (f1r, notes after the first paragraph)
My interpretation: "Contrarie reducam (redigam)". In English, I think: "I will return (direct) backwards (to the contrary)" 
2. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (f116v, the only notes in cipher)
Interpretation (if I correctly detect glyphs): "Retornare novem" or "Retornare ineam". In English: "May I renew to return!" or "May I begin (enter) to return!" One more possible interpretation (because of difficulties with the detecting of the "sh" glyph here): "Retornare vivam". In English: "I will live to return". But now these details are less important as the main matter is in the word "retornare" which has no other alternatives in my interpretation.
3. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (Central "rosette" of the Rosettes page)
Interpretation: "Obtenderis initum salvationis ratione rara ob iteraturum limitem commiterre retorno. Innovat reditibus (rotatibus)."
In English: " You will lay (conceal, hold) the beginning of salvation by rare means before (to, for) the iterating path (limit) to fasten (bind, unite, begin) by return. It renews (resumes) by returns (or turns)."
I hope I correctly detected all glyphs, some of them are quite illegible (especially, in the folds).
I want to pay attention to the repeating of the same idea which is reflected in the words: "retorno", "reducam", "contrarie", "reditibus", "initum", "iteraturum" etc. It can relate to a certain renewing and, possibly, mentioned returns are natural  properties of turns (rotations). 
As well, I want to add that these three cases are not the only places where these words and their synonyms are appeared.

Sorry, I haven't been following this thread very closely. My Latin is almost nonexistent.

I have to ask whether or not the various translators/decipherers in this thread are each always translating identical words the same way (within their own translations/decipherments) when they appear in the VMS text or if the words sometimes change meanings depending on their place in the sentence or paragraph or on the page, the words before or after the word in question, suspected homonyms/heteronyms, some other identifiable/quantifiable reason or maybe depending on just the whim/need of the translator/decipherer?

What do EVA = daiin, ol, chedy, aiin, shedy, chol, or, ar, chey, dar and qokeedy (the most often repeated ten words in the VMS) each mean? These ten words represent more than 10% of the total VMS words. It seems to me that an understanding of these meanings might give a hint of the what the VMS is about (unless it is gibberish or stream of consciousness type stuff). The translations given here so far leave a bit to be desired toward understanding the reasons for producing the VMS.

Also, do the various translators/decipherers have explanations for the words repeating three or four times consecutively in the text?

If these questions have already been asked, I apologize for repeating them.

Thank you.

Don of Tallahassee

(03-07-2016, 03:18 PM)don of tallahassee Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Sorry, I haven't been following this thread very closely. My Latin is almost nonexistent.

I have to ask whether or not the various translators/decipherers in this thread are each always translating identical words the same way (within their own translations/decipherments) when they appear in the VMS text or if the words sometimes change meanings depending on their place in the sentence or paragraph or on the page, the words before or after the word in question, suspected homonyms/heteronyms, some other identifiable/quantifiable reason or maybe depending on just the whim/need of the translator/decipherer?

What do EVA = daiin, ol, chedy, aiin, shedy, chol, or, ar, chey, dar and qokeedy (the most often repeated ten words in the VMS) each mean? These ten words represent more than 10% of the total VMS words. It seems to me that an understanding of these meanings might give a hint of the what the VMS is about (unless it is gibberish or stream of consciousness type stuff). The translations given here so far leave a bit to be desired toward understanding the reasons for producing the VMS.

Also, do the various translators/decipherers have explanations for the words repeating three or four times consecutively in the text?

If these questions have already been asked, I apologize for repeating them.

Thank you.

Don of Tallahassee

Of course, I can't answer for the other researchers, but I can give my interpretations of the most popular words from the mentioned list as you ask.
The most popular word "daiin" is the one of the most problematic words in my interpretation because of difficulty to interpret its ending (abbreviation) "iin". I decipher the word "daiin" as: traditibus, triturum or teritorium, but I still have doubt and suspect here the same principle as with the group" "e", "ee" and "eee", so, it can be just the word "traditum" (i – ta, ti, tu, da,  di, du; n – tum, dum, bus). Hence, "in", "iin" and "iiin" can be the same. I'm not ready to answer whether it is possible the other combinations: di-ti-bus, ta-ti-bus, turum etc. There is too little set of endings for the usual European language, so, as for me, it is the only one way – to unite few endings in one abbreviation or, maybe abbreviation complex.
The list of the most frequent words in the VMs:
daiin – traditibus?, triturum, traditum? teritorium?.
ol – os, nos.
shedy – avidum and hiatum (similar meaning, look below),  avitum, vietum. Actually, the glyph "sh" keeps in itself few different glyphs (abbreviations) which differ by superscripts, naturally, interpretations of words differ, too.
chedy - vitam, vatum, vadum, aedem, autem, jutum.
aiin – rotarum, reditum? reditibus?.
chol – unus, vos, ens.
or1 – ora and hora, ore  and horae, ori
or2 – inter, natura, natione, notione, lator, later, notor.
ar1 – rara/o, rore/a/i.
ar2 – ratione/i.
chey – viam, avem, aium.
dar1 – terra, terre, terere.
dar2 – tritura, tritor.
qokeedy (qokchdy, qokedy, qokeeedy) – procatum (the same as provocatum, obsecratio), perlocutum (likely, prolocutum)
From my observation, there are quite frequent word combinations with the word “os” (noun, neutral gender, in the singular, nominative and accusative case)  in the VMs (the order of the words is retained in English translation):
ol dain – os traditum (a speech entrusted, passed on, narrated)
ol daiin – os triturum/ traditum? (a speech insulting/ passed on etc.)
ol chedy – os vatum (a speech of prophets)
ol sh1edy – os avidum/ hiatum (a speech with emotion or inspiration, a speech ardent)
ol sh2edy – os initum (a speech which is begun, introductory)
ol sh2ey – os novum (a speech new)
ol sh1ey – os vivum (a speech ardent, lively)
ol oteedy (otchdy, otedy) – os obitum/ labatum (a speech dead)
ol tchdy (teedy, tedy) – os mutum (a speech silent, mute)
ol kchdy (keedy, kedy) – os catum (a speech ringing, resonant, shrill)
ol chey – os aium (a speech prophetic)
ol sh1eol – os aiens (a speech affirmative)
ol olkeey (olkchy, olkey) – os inscium (a speech unknown)
ol olkedy (olkeedy, olkchdy) – os inscitum (a speech unknown)
ol lkain – os scrutatum (a speech proved, examinsed)
ol qotchdy (qoteedy, qotedy) – os probatum (a speech proved, honest)
ol lchedy – os suetum/ suadum (a speech habitual, usual) (a speech convincing)
ol oly – os lusum/ osum (a speech derisive) (a speech unacceptable)
ol qoty – os probum (a speech true, honest, useful)
ol qotey – os propium (a mouth/ speech own)
ol sh2eol – os luens (a speech purifying)
ol olaiin – os inserturum (a speech implanting, educative, linking)
As well, not frequent, but sufficiently interesting combinations below:
pol dshedy – onus dividum (a burden (duty) divided (shared))
ochedy pol shedy  – invitum/ invidum onus avitum (an undesirable/ inauspicious burden inherited )
pol schody – onus sanatum (a burden (duty) expiated, removed)
pol olkeeey – onus inscium (a burden unknown)
pol sh2ey – onus novum/ levem (acc.) ( a burden new/ easy)
pol sh2edy – onus initum (a burden which is begun)
pol qoty – onus probum (a burden (duty) true, useful)
pol otoldy – onus op(p)ositum (a burden opposite)
pol lain – onus serturum (a burden beginning, linking)
pol chedy – onus jutum (a burden aided)
pol okol – onus ingens (a burden huge)
qoteey loly – prop®ium sensum (own perception)
qoteedy qokeedy – probatum procatum (an entreaty (prayer) honest, trusted, acceptable)
ar2 aiin – ratione rotarum (by means of wheels, vicissitudes)
I will try to examine what is in the vicinity of the word “daiin”  through the text as soon as possible, may this will clarify its meaning.

Dear Searcher,

It looks to me like you give several word meanings for some of the VMS words, maybe even several sounds for some of the glyphs.

I don't think I follow your reasoning. It must be my lack of Latin.

It doesn't seem to be a readily understandable system/language. It looks like there is a lot of (too much?) room for possibly misunderstanding what is written.

I cannot tell whether or not the way you break down the words is consistent with the proposed deconstruction system I have demonstrated being present in all but twelve of the approximately twenty four hundred repeated glyph words in the VMS.

Thank you very much for trying to help me understand.

Don of Tallahassee

(05-07-2016, 10:47 PM)don of tallahassee Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Dear Searcher,

It looks to me like you give several word meanings for some of the VMS words, maybe even several sounds for some of the glyphs.

I don't think I follow your reasoning. It must be my lack of Latin.

It doesn't seem to be a readily understandable system/language. It looks like there is a lot of (too much?) room for possibly misunderstanding what is written.

I cannot tell whether or not the way you break down the words is consistent with the proposed deconstruction system I have demonstrated being present in all but twelve of the approximately twenty four hundred repeated glyph words in the VMS.

Thank you very much for trying to help me understand.

Don of Tallahassee

Anyway, thanks for your interest.

This table is just for comparison and study to any researcher, without my interpretation.
Interesting, that, beginning from the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. to the last “recipes” pages, excluding “roots and leaves” pages, there is the maximal concentration of such words: qokeedy, qokedy, qokchdy, ol, qotedy and qoteedy. Some lines contain 3 and 4 qokedy in succession,  some – include in itself 3 qokeedy and 2 qokedy. There are many places with doubled qokedy or qokeedy, just in the mentioned area.
On my opinion, this is a very strange occurrence for any language. In the same time, it seems to be nonsense to write meaningless text with the aim to represent it as a real enciphered information in this way.
Now I have only two explanations for this:
1) the text includes many prayers or invocations with repetition of the same set of words.
2) particular parts or pages of the text which are full of multiple reiteration of  few words through it are meaningless, but the rest of the text contains useful information.
Actually, such text would look in English approximately so:

Great green grass grows on the ground. The ground is full of  green-green grass which is really great. I like this great grass, because it is very green, green as a great emerald, especially, that grass which is on my ground.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.To make my observation obvious.

I've just found You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., it shows almost all picture, but I'm waiting for Job's reply, after all.
Only remind that in my interpretation:
qokeedy, qokedy, qokchdy - procatum, perlocutum, perlucidum (invocation, expressed, clear or pellucid), so, even, if qokeedy or qokedy  are doubled, it can be the word combination procatum perlocutum (an expressed invocation); tripled - ? (for now, but, maybe, verse);
ol - os (mouth, speech, bone);
qotedy, qoteedy, qotchdy - probatum (tested, good, verified)

Very interesting work, Searcher!