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bunny

02-01-2017, 07:29 PM
I have to apologise in advance for the grammar as this is how it came out, this oddness assumed to be the characteristic of text words needing to represent various languages, resulting in essence of meaning not grammar.  Some really unusually spelt words in context rarely shortened further in general, hence nefas vs nefastus.  Words may have 2 missing letters on top of Stellar's undetermined glyphs

This is my interpretation in basic form:

uounen 
nunc vello 
presently I conceal 
 
uoe--                             et          oiia                                men            ut             cuoiien         et
occulte                           et          vici+ oa = aio/ago/ora   mens            utor           ille Cronus   et
secretly/in concealment   both...    refute                            knowledge    posess      he Cronus    and...


en                      uo--            en       oiuse--            uoiiu                    -uia        uoiiud          uoiud
mens                  volo            nec     orbis+vertit      vox+vicis              viae       divinus+o     vel+video
understanding     determine    not     disc+turn         changing+voice     ways      divine          or perhaps+I see
   
e--               sg-a                         uoun        sena          uoiuen                                               sen            e-nsa 
edi               gens+a                    novum      sane          vulgo+niger                                       sensi          nefas(tus)
devour     offspring+and then    to renew   doubtless    commonly/everywhere+ill omen/dark   perceived   sin/unlucky

Attempting to make it into a more grammatically correct form below as far as the letters allow but probably not much better!  There were more suitable longer word choices but would have meant straying from the method formula.  The essence is retained in either case.

uounen 

uoe--  et uoiia men u cuoiien et en uo-- en oiuse-- uoiiu -uia uoiiud uoiud e-- sg-a uoun sena uoiuen sen e-nsa

nunc velor
occulte fert vici ora mens uti cronus inire est ne volens mens orbis verti vici voci viae vox divinum 
vel video esus genus ac novus sane vulgo niger sensi nefas

Bunny

stellar

03-01-2017, 10:53 PM
The previous image of Chi-Rho had a incorrect number which affects the addition for the star word Alnitak.  The cipher was correct in the identification, but I accidentally put a 64 in instead of 68.  Here is the correct image.  

Cheers Smile

[Image: chirho11.jpg]

ThomasCoon

05-01-2017, 02:10 AM
(02-01-2017, 07:29 PM)bunny Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I have to apologise in advance for the grammar as this is how it came out, this oddness assumed to be the characteristic of text words needing to represent various languages, resulting in essence of meaning not grammar.  Some really unusually spelt words in context rarely shortened further in general, hence nefas vs nefastus.  Words may have 2 missing letters on top of Stellar's undetermined glyphs

This is my interpretation in basic form:

uounen 
nunc vello 
presently I conceal 
 
uoe--                             et          oiia                                men            ut             cuoiien         et
occulte                           et          vici+ oa = aio/ago/ora   mens            utor           ille Cronus   et
secretly/in concealment   both...    refute                            knowledge    posess      he Cronus    and...


en                      uo--            en       oiuse--            uoiiu                    -uia        uoiiud          uoiud
mens                  volo            nec     orbis+vertit      vox+vicis              viae       divinus+o     vel+video
understanding     determine    not     disc+turn         changing+voice     ways      divine          or perhaps+I see
   
e--               sg-a                         uoun        sena          uoiuen                                               sen            e-nsa 
edi               gens+a                    novum      sane          vulgo+niger                                       sensi          nefas(tus)
devour     offspring+and then    to renew   doubtless    commonly/everywhere+ill omen/dark   perceived   sin/unlucky

Attempting to make it into a more grammatically correct form below as far as the letters allow but probably not much better!  There were more suitable longer word choices but would have meant straying from the method formula.  The essence is retained in either case.

uounen 

uoe--  et uoiia men u cuoiien et en uo-- en oiuse-- uoiiu -uia uoiiud uoiud e-- sg-a uoun sena uoiuen sen e-nsa

nunc velor
occulte fert vici ora mens uti cronus inire est ne volens mens orbis verti vici voci viae vox divinum 
vel video esus genus ac novus sane vulgo niger sensi nefas

Bunny


Thank you Bunny. Was this the post that would address the issue of the common thread between Gematria renderings? I just wanted to make sure I didn't miss it. Thanks in advance.

As for your method, my general question would be, what is the use of this sentence that you have constructed: "Secretly both refute knowledge (I) possess, he Cronus, and understanding (/mind) determine not to turn the disc..."

I am only curious (not trying to reproach) - thank you in advance!
Stellar, thank you for the images Smile

stellar

05-01-2017, 11:23 PM
Koen and the Crew,

Thank you for your thoughts about my method for translating the text into Middle English.  I provided a dictionary here and you will see that the Gematria fits with the grammar which flows perfectly.  I believe this is the closest grammatical representation of any paragraph to date in History ever translated from the VMS Corpus.  For fun, I will let you all translate it yourselves since I did the leg work so just use the dictionary below.  If you are not familiar with searching for a word in the dictionary.  Simply open the dictionary below and use the upper right find in the Google browser.  Then type in one the words in Middle English that's in the Water Lily picture below.
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[Image: voynich-manuscript-gematria-table-tom-e-oneil.png]
[Image: 1lily.png]
Large Middle English Dictionary
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stellar

08-01-2017, 06:17 AM
[Image: hanged+jesuits3.jpg]


Quote:It is cowardise and lack of hartes and corage that kepeth the Frenchmen from rysyng, and not povertye; which corage no Frenche man hath like to the English man. It hath ben often seen in Englond that iij or iv thefes, for povertie, hath set upon vij or viij true men, at robbyd them al. But it had not been seen in Fraunce, that vij or viij thefes have ben hardy to robbe iij or iv true men. Wherefor it is right seid that few Frenchmen be hanged for robbery, for that they have no hertys to do so terryble an acte. There be therefor mo men hangyd in Eglnd, in a yere, for robberye and manslaughter, than ther be hangid in Fraunce for such cause of crime in vij yers.
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EnjoySmile
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[Image: f1r111.png]
Middle English Dictionary:
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stellar

04-02-2017, 08:38 PM
Voynich Manuscript in Middle Engish

Syntax and Logic of VMS

First off, let me discuss the syntax and grammar of the Voynich Manuscript when my cipher is applied.  Prefixes in my cipher indicate nouns, adjectives, verbs, adverbs and conjunctions.  It seems to me, that the structure of the VMS within my cipher uses the first two letters as an indicator for what prefix maybe associated with the Ordinal number of the Gematria word.  As a basses’ for investigating word origins, my cipher combines syntax too Ordinal Gematria (A=1 throughout the alphabet Z=26) to find words in Middle English.   The tools for prefix’s and suffix’s examples are listed below, which indicate a structured language! Perhaps this script was invented by the Author Chaucer between (1361 A.D. through 1368 A.D.) or it is a lost Celtic language, which I believe was Geoffrey Chaucer’s choice.  I believe the Carbon dating is not fully tested yet for the Voynich Manuscript; or Chaucer in Old age near the end of the 14th Century laid down the text.
Secondly, for me it is easier to read my cipher and see the logic going on with standard letters for syntax and grammar; yet these rules should apply to the VMS glyph’s too!
 
Example: A prefix starting with (eo, rh, qt, rq ) indicate adjectives.
Example: A prefix of (na, ra) a verb.
Example: A prefix with (ne, v, r) a conj.
Example: Prefix’s with (ne, he, ei, qi, te) nouns.
Example: Prefix’s with (na,) pronoun
Example: Suffix’s with (ao, nq) nouns
Thirdly, the format of this document is setup so you can search it with Roman Numerals.  The black text is VMS and the blue text is the Ordinal Gematia Numbers of the Words, cipher and Middle English! Finally the red text is Modern English.

I want to stress here that I have not fully investigated the syntax theory and I really would like some input and help here.  I know many don't like my theory, but this could be a great thought experiment and maybe someone here will see a pattern for syntax.  The story line does follow logic and obeys some rules for how a essay would written.  I don't write like this.  ReneZ, Torsten, Koen, SamG, Emma, llele, David, JKP and Thomas Coon or anyone do you see a pattern for logic with the first 2 letters of eva pointing toward syntax?


kor cholfy shopchy otoralchy 
36      75        50              77
tek neoxq hefnq eiekaonq
Real dispence Londe Conseil
Royalty expenditures, London’s Council,

II
chofchol sholy otaly dal m dshodal or 
77           45      47   34  22    65     16
nexneo heoq eiaoq rao v rherao ek
deffendeth defye bifalle, so gan tixt! Ek
forbids repudiation to happen, so began lie!  Moreover

III
ckhy olchear char tal ytal ytar
51        49       26    25    42     38
ntq eoncak nak iao qiao qiak
fremde Regne kan, Y war abeye
Foreign Kingdom knows, the war to pay for,

IIII
 
olchokal ykechod dalal!dam ytam choty
75              77       50     41    49   45
eonetao qtcner raoao rav qiav neiq
dispence nycetee muche oft Regne faille
expenditures foolish.  Much often Kingdoms failure

IV
otchy otaly shoty s dshor cholar aiin 
49      47     39  19   42     46      38
eirq eiaoq heiq S rhek neoak allm
abideth bifalle.  Faire and war algate bifil
awaits to happen.  Business and war always happened.

VI
shalom shaly dalchy oteom dal sholalam
 
51         41      65    54   34     67
 haoev haoq raonq eicov rao heoaoav
Fremde acord demandes dette so apalled
Foreign agreement questions debt, so faded

VII
qor dchairam otar otar char ar al 
39      79         26    26    26   12  16
wek rnalkav eiak eiak nak ak ao
faire folily.  God ay kan ak ech
business foolishly.  God always knows, but each

VIII
char arary ytalar cham torchey otaiin 
26       41         54    37      59       52
nak akakq qiaoak nav iekncq eiallm
deel !  Oft Chirche galle brent hyne
in every detail!  Often Church bitterness burned peasants

VIIII
chary oteory otal dalchor ykeey 
43        50       30      64        60
nakq eicekq eiao raonek qtccq
alday slen oo dredeth peril
daily, to kill, one fears peril.

X
choltam saiin chol!keey dal shom shol!
66             57   34    43   34   35   28
Neoiav sallm neo tccq rao hev heo
Rist, dampned dye stac so to mo
By moral law, condemned, die at stake so to others

XI
teol ytalody otey cheoly o tchy 
32       82         34    54      5   40
iceo qiaoerq eicq nceoq e inq
abyd bountee, so Chirche ad decree
remain virtuous; so Church made one take an oath, by Ecclesiastical Law.

XII
toleeshal oleeam dalor chy oteodchy 
59              49         50     31    71
ieocchao eoccav raoek nq eicernq
Lorn Benefice, Londe, pardee doomes
Lost ecclesiastical living, London, indeed judgements

XIII
yteochy otey kal dy alam sholaiin 
65         34    36  35  39     66
qicenq eicq tao rq aoav heoallm
abydeth, so fey to per Rist
awaits, so Faith to consequently by moral law

XIIII
chey y
51
Ncqq
Crude
Unrefined.

XV
teo!daiin qoar aiin arary sheey daiin 
17    56      40     38     41       31     56
ice rallm weak allm akakq hccq rallm
Can wise chese lay?  Oft pardee wise
Can wise choose religious law?  Often indeed wise

XVI
ealam tal ar am shar chepchey otar 
42       26   13 22  20    57        26
caoav iao aka v hak ncfncq eiak
bobance ya!  Al dide hak affray God!
boast yes! All did unsparing assault God!

XVII
aldy otal cheam qokaiin ote ry 
51      30    40      86          45
aorq eiao ncav wetallm eickq
Sire make felle brenneth much
Father, make cruel, burn! Much

XVIII
qocphody qokalam chairal qo ct!aiin 
88             87           54       28    61
wenferq wetaoav nalkao we niallm
stryf bitwix Chirche, Man, Reallm
strife between Church, Man, Realm

XIX
otalal dalor orar shoar ar choldal 
46           50      28    25   12    68
eiaoao raoek ekak heak ak neorao
coom.  Londe Duc gale ak bihigte
came.  London’s Duke complained loudly, but promised

XX
otalchal dal choldy okalys airaldy 
60           34      69      77        75
eiaonao rao neorq etaoqs alkaorq
lutee, so Londes Conseil dispence
little, so London’s Counsel expenditures

XXI
shar ytar sheear cheoldy ykeol 
20    38      26       72         60
hak qiak hccak nceorq qtceo
sa hye kan, therof.  With
debt increased knowingly, nothing to them.  With

XXII
cheal cheody chal chaiin ol oly sharam
33      57     30   52    20 37    43
ncao ncerq nao nallm eo eoq hakav
the delices, make hyne deef gye, but
the pleasures, make servants deaf governor, but

XXIII
 okair chckaiin ytchaly dal chal ykal 
49        86          73      34    30   53 
etalk nntallm qinaoq rao nao qtao
talke benynge, lutt bifel.  Oo canot
conversation good, little happened.  One cannot

XXIV
okalal oly chal dy r chal qopaiim cholaly 
57         37   30 35 18  30    81          67
etaoao eoq nao rq r nao wefallv neoaoq
boote gye! make ches em oo graunt Lionel
remedy governor!  Make choice brother, one law Lionel
 
XXVI
dy shedy typchey ar air ytashy 
35  46! NOT DONE, TWO MORE PARAGRAPHS!
rq hcrq iqfncq ak alk qiahq
Ches Leon.
Choose Leon.

davidjackson

04-02-2017, 09:26 PM
Threads merged as they are on the same subject.

stellar

23-02-2017, 06:18 AM
New video explaining my method for decoding the VMS

stellar

13-03-2017, 07:20 AM
JKP honorable mention made me research You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.!  I found in the small circle the word Crabba from my cipher!

[Image: crabba1.png]

stellar

14-03-2017, 07:56 PM
I went over You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. with a find comb to get the cob webs out and its interesting that July actually needed refinement to the phrase, "The Crabba" like the lobsters to my satisfaction.  Also polar was set and the word for Virgo was set to true.  I received a very enthusiastic response from my programmer after he viewed the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and he also understood the underlying prefix's which were demonstrated implies syntax.  He is highly intelligent from what I surmised by the way he writes.  I believe by the end of summer 2017, I will be able to post the program or website that we design for a full translation of the VMS to Middle English! I will keep you all posted when its available Rolleyes
A tool for viewing leltter values.
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[Image: zodiacstars2.png]
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The Voynich Ninja > Voynich Research > Analysis of the text > Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r